Official Thread PlayStation Hardware
- Thread starter TeKPhaN
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At the end of ghe day games target the lowest denominator.So, Xbox targets Xbox One for the first 2 years. So , other than a few obvous bells and whistles XSX are going to be massively held back. Same for third party games I would expect.
Sony on the other hand, is having PS5 exclusives day 1, unless I missed them say otherwise. Therefor, it should mean PS5 exclusives should be far more impressive...At least initially.
I know E3 is cancelled, but MS did their own thing for a while, and Sony likely wasn't going anyway.But I still fully expect an E3 style presentation from both around E3 time......should we tell him guys?
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I like how they act like just because Sony's system is "Balanced", that means MS' isn't. Yes the PS5 SSD is faster, but the SeX's SSD isn't exactly a slouch either. Not only that, but to me, it looks like the SeX will be more reliable. I'm still a bit worried about heat for the PS5- I heard that 2.2 GHz upclock is very high.
I also understand that the "geometry engine" has an analogue on the X as well...
Anyway, there is a lot of mental gymnastics going on that I'm not sure have merit.
I'm not worried about heat, they wouldn't be pushing that if they hadn't tested it and come up with a cooling solution they felt would work.
If not heat then noise. That sucker will be running hot, and there have certainly been rumors of cooling solution troubles.
There are always rumors of cooling solution troubles but Sony could have and would have gone a different route if this didn't work, in DF's video they said that Cerny said that it would be quieter than the PS4 and Pro, Cerny mentioned a cooling system that would be shown in a teardown during his talk so I don't think people should be applying what has happened in the past with what they are doing now because no console has taken this approach before.
Jason Schreier talking about what he's heard about PS5 from devs on another forum.
www.resetera.com
There is more conversation going on but here's a quote from the end of it talking about Sony doing a poor job of "marketing" the console.
What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs
Earlier today, someone made an awful thread based on a lengthy conversation I had on the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast by transcribing a single line from it, and it led to 12 pages of truly embarrassing discourse. Since so many of you commented and reacted without actually listening to the episode...
www.resetera.com
There is more conversation going on but here's a quote from the end of it talking about Sony doing a poor job of "marketing" the console.
That was MS and they were in a rush to get a console out, this isn't the same thing.
I dont think Sony will have a presser. At least, thats the impression they gave when they canceled E3 2020 for themselves some months ago. They may come with something else down the line though. Still, I got a gut feeling the PS5 wont make this holiday release. We will have to see...
Yeah. Not sure how SSD translates into better visuals and performance deltas. And 5 second load times compared to 10 seconds isnt really that impressive when compared. Like Froz stated, the mental gymnastics going on around the SSD is a head scratcher for sure! Series X handidly beats PS5 in every other metric. PS5 has more than enough juice under the hood to shell out some stellar looking games though.
If you want the links, I posted the rest of this in the XSX thread. This is regarding heat/cooling:
“We also don’t know how well cooled the SSD is on the PS5. MS explained their cooling and how their SSD solution can basically run a constant storage bandwidth.
The key on the XSX is that MS touts the numbers, from storage to teraflops to memory bandwidth to clocks, are all constant and predictable. There is no overlock or underlock. You know what speed your storage will go at, what speed your CPU and CPU cores will go out, how fast your memory will be, etc. This makes optimizing much easier because they have made performance sustained and predictable.
So we are basically getting a PCIe 4.0 SSD on the PS5. With that comes more heat – that is the cost of the speed. Is there a heat sync? Does it latch into the cooling system overall? Do your add on SSDs need a heat sync or performance will suffer? Do they need a specific heat sink?
It seems that Microsoft engineering came to the conclusion that a PC m.2 drive may not be optimal for predictable sustained performance. They also may have concluded the PCIe 4.0 will run too hot. m.2 SSDs in high performance laptops and desktops cannot sustain transfer due to heat without some massive mod. If MS has figured out how to deliver a high speed storage system with excellent heat transfer, we may find in real life that the PS5 speed is not impressive.
It’s quite possible that without the proper cooling, the PS5 system may have to throttle down to slower speeds to keep cooler in regards to SSD.
The question that needs to be answered is did Sony do this to get super high speed storage that is way ahead – or did they do it so they could just get storage to match what the we will see in the XSX because they did not or could not engineer a solution for cooling?
The RAM that matters in the Xbox is far superior and will allow for faster throughput and less wasted cycles. It will be easy to allocate to specific memory addresses associated with the higher speed memory. The PS5 I/O advantage may not be much if the cooling is not adequate and MS is correct and they have adequately cooled it so the I/O can be sustained and not diminish.
Sony is not that great at cooling. I’ve heard from devs that Sony is not showing off the PS5 because it has thermal problems. Microsoft has no problem letting DF do a vid and showing them around while Sony has to rush a presentation to counter. I know from devs that have the kits that they feel the Xbox is easier to optimize and they feel games will look and feel much better on the Xbox upon release because it will take time to optimize for PS5 and figure it out.
I’ve been told it is not as bad as what happened with the PS3, but somewhat similar. The Xbox 360 was much more straightforward while the architecture for the PS3 was not. This is not the Cell, but it will require a lot of work in regards to clocks, etc to figure out how to optimize. They will eventually, but the first year may have some rougher titles that look noticeably worse than the XSX.
“The one advantage the PS5 has, the I/O, may not be one if they can’t cool the drive. And the question of expansion is a real one. Do you need a heat sink on your approved SSD? The Xbox solution may be more expensive, but it also may be more consistent and easier to deal with since you don’t have to crack open the case. MS could also bulk order them up front to reduce initial cost.
“We also don’t know how well cooled the SSD is on the PS5. MS explained their cooling and how their SSD solution can basically run a constant storage bandwidth.
The key on the XSX is that MS touts the numbers, from storage to teraflops to memory bandwidth to clocks, are all constant and predictable. There is no overlock or underlock. You know what speed your storage will go at, what speed your CPU and CPU cores will go out, how fast your memory will be, etc. This makes optimizing much easier because they have made performance sustained and predictable.
So we are basically getting a PCIe 4.0 SSD on the PS5. With that comes more heat – that is the cost of the speed. Is there a heat sync? Does it latch into the cooling system overall? Do your add on SSDs need a heat sync or performance will suffer? Do they need a specific heat sink?
It seems that Microsoft engineering came to the conclusion that a PC m.2 drive may not be optimal for predictable sustained performance. They also may have concluded the PCIe 4.0 will run too hot. m.2 SSDs in high performance laptops and desktops cannot sustain transfer due to heat without some massive mod. If MS has figured out how to deliver a high speed storage system with excellent heat transfer, we may find in real life that the PS5 speed is not impressive.
It’s quite possible that without the proper cooling, the PS5 system may have to throttle down to slower speeds to keep cooler in regards to SSD.
The question that needs to be answered is did Sony do this to get super high speed storage that is way ahead – or did they do it so they could just get storage to match what the we will see in the XSX because they did not or could not engineer a solution for cooling?
The RAM that matters in the Xbox is far superior and will allow for faster throughput and less wasted cycles. It will be easy to allocate to specific memory addresses associated with the higher speed memory. The PS5 I/O advantage may not be much if the cooling is not adequate and MS is correct and they have adequately cooled it so the I/O can be sustained and not diminish.
Sony is not that great at cooling. I’ve heard from devs that Sony is not showing off the PS5 because it has thermal problems. Microsoft has no problem letting DF do a vid and showing them around while Sony has to rush a presentation to counter. I know from devs that have the kits that they feel the Xbox is easier to optimize and they feel games will look and feel much better on the Xbox upon release because it will take time to optimize for PS5 and figure it out.
I’ve been told it is not as bad as what happened with the PS3, but somewhat similar. The Xbox 360 was much more straightforward while the architecture for the PS3 was not. This is not the Cell, but it will require a lot of work in regards to clocks, etc to figure out how to optimize. They will eventually, but the first year may have some rougher titles that look noticeably worse than the XSX.
“The one advantage the PS5 has, the I/O, may not be one if they can’t cool the drive. And the question of expansion is a real one. Do you need a heat sink on your approved SSD? The Xbox solution may be more expensive, but it also may be more consistent and easier to deal with since you don’t have to crack open the case. MS could also bulk order them up front to reduce initial cost.
I think they will. Might be scaled back and more like a stream demo like we saw With Div 2 and lots of other games, but with more variety.
The PS5 will definitely be the best experience in gaming from about 2 seconds after you start the game to six seconds when the Xbox loads up.
He didn't say it was just the SSD so you shouldn't focus on that only, I don't think anyone here is in a position to say they know more than devs who are telling him what he's hearing and he is legit. From what Cerny said running the clocks higher gives you more of other things as well and you aren't leaving potential system performance sitting around waiting for something to do. I won't pretend that I understand all of this completely and I'm willing to be nobody here does either, I'm also not saying I believe the PS5 is more powerful but I do think we probably aren't getting the whole picture.
Yeah, Witcher 3 looked like ass because that Gateway PC from 2008 held it back.
As nice as the SSD sounds (though the real difference between PS5 and XSeX is negligible as a practical matter), the sound processing on PS5 seems like it'll be really sweet. Whether it's the same level of useless fluff that the SSD is, I dunno, but I like the sound of it.
(On the SSD: it will never be faster than RAM, so it matters for startup and it matters for loading stuff into RAM. Even assuming no benefit from compression as a worst case, XSeX would fill the 16 GB of RAM in less than 7 seconds. Hence, the quick switch between games taking roughly that long. In game, that difference is never going to be noticed other than full loads like quick travel.)
Regarding the SSD you seem to think it's all about load times and that's not it at all.
This is from a dev on resetera responding to a tweet from one of the DF guys.
I agree to an extent. Still, you cant get around the 12Tf. Its just a more powerful system. Its pretty obvious the PS5 was a 9.2 TF system until they heard what Microsoft was doing. SSD isnt going to change that. Not saying the PS5 wont be a great console. Surely it will.
That's not obvious at all, this stuff doesn't just get thrown in there lol their cooling solution and everything else was built for this. I do agree both machines are going to be great and I'm sure people who buy either one or both will be happy with what they have.
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