Official Thread PlayStation Hardware

[menace-uk-]

Jason Schreier talking about what he's heard about PS5 from devs on another forum.

What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs

Earlier today, someone made an awful thread based on a lengthy conversation I had on the Kotaku Splitscreen podcast by transcribing a single line from it, and it led to 12 pages of truly embarrassing discourse. Since so many of you commented and reacted without actually listening to the episode...

www.resetera.com

There is more conversation going on but here's a quote from the end of it talking about Sony doing a poor job of "marketing" the console.

I suggested that might happen a while agao. The current HDD were always going to be limiter in modern gameing. Even more so nowadays with the huge worlds we have.

 

[TeKPhaN]

At the end of ghe day games target the lowest denominator.So, Xbox targets Xbox One for the first 2 years. So , other than a few obvous bells and whistles XSX are going to be massively held back. Same for third party games I would expect.

Sony on the other hand, is having PS5 exclusives day 1, unless I missed them say otherwise. Therefor, it should mean PS5 exclusives should be far more impressive...At least initially.

Yup

 

[TeKPhaN]

Yeah, Witcher 3 looked like ass because that Gateway PC from 2008 held it back.

Tell DF that making games for older specs doesn't reduce the scope of development.
You guys run to them and I been saying it does and so do they.

 

[hrudey]

Regarding the SSD you seem to think it's all about load times and that's not it at all.

This is from a dev on resetera responding to a tweet from one of the DF guys.

With decompression enabled, they're claiming to be able to get 9 GB/sec from the SSD.

They get 448 GB/sec from RAM.

Streaming in assets, yes, will be a little faster, but look at the example - streaming in a whole neighborhood in the blink of an eye is an absurd level of overkill because you can't even remotely display all of that at once. They'll probably still require prediction to figure out what to load in, and be able to load more important stuff into RAM rather than having to load "expensive" assets in case they're needed, but it still has to get into RAM at the end of the day.

 

[hrudey]

Tell DF that making games for older specs doesn't reduce the scope of development.
You guys run to them and I been saying it does and so do they.

They're not writing f***ing assembly language. They're writing in engines that are set up to be able to deploy the game to various target hardware.

 

[menace-uk-]

With decompression enabled, they're claiming to be able to get 9 GB/sec from the SSD.

They get 448 GB/sec from RAM.

Streaming in assets, yes, will be a little faster, but look at the example - streaming in a whole neighborhood in the blink of an eye is an absurd level of overkill because you can't even remotely display all of that at once. They'll probably still require prediction to figure out what to load in, and be able to load more important stuff into RAM rather than having to load "expensive" assets in case they're needed, but it still has to get into RAM at the end of the day.

And current 7200RPM HDDs are what...150MB/s? That is a ridiculous jump.

 

[hrudey]

And current 7200RPM HDDs are what...150MB/s? That is a ridiculous jump.

Right, it's definitely a game changer compared to that. The XSX is 16 times faster than that, even without the whole rewrite of the I/O stack and decompression throughput. I'm just not sure I see the logic behind going as lopsided into it as Sony did - it's like they'll have games with very high graphic settings and ultraunimaginable LOD vs. MS with ultra everything. Those pixels representing the trees 4 miles down the road will appear ten frames sooner on PS5, I suppose, which is something. Although you'll probably hear the cricket farting on them even sooner with that sound chip!

 

[menace-uk-]

They're not writing f***ing assembly language. They're writing in engines that are set up to be able to deploy the game to various target hardware.

You can't build 2 very different games though. You can't build a game a game that has to work on Xbox one that has to be the same on XSX and not be limited. For example, worlds could far bigger on XSX but you can't build them cause the X1 can't do it. You could have far better A.i, Physics, etc, but can't cause X1 can't handle.It.

It is just common sense that something 10x less powerful will be a limiting factor.

Not too mention that for decades devs have been telling us X game wasn't possible last gen. I mean what a bunch of liars.

 

[Frozpot]

Regarding the SSD you seem to think it's all about load times and that's not it at all.

This is from a dev on resetera responding to a tweet from one of the DF guys.

I can see the loading lods part, but you still have to process and render that data.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

You guys realize that the whole 'we couldn't do X on this last gen console' died out with the PS3/360 generation right.

We are approaching diminishing returns.
Let me ask? What do you really think will be completely impossible on the XS that the XSX can do? Outside of graphical improvements?

Lets say the XSX has a huge open world game that streams everything at blistering speeds. Streaming? Bigger environments? The XS can do it but it would struggle. Stutters and streaming issues. It could still do it but way worse.

Physics? Physics is a CPU driven process and if the XSX has alot of physics in the scene the XS equivalent will have it but it will be terrible or it might not at all. Fact is the XS has a CPU that sucks but it DOES have a modern CPU that can handle physics.

My point is, and the point people are missing is that if Microsoft says to Ninja Theory "hey create the biggest most ambitious game you can!"

The game would be developed with the XSX in mind (because games are ported down folks) then ported to the much weaker X consoles. We already know that the weaker X consoles will struggle with everything and compromises will be made.

Hardware holding back other hardware in modern gaming is only referenced when the gulf is more than generationally greater or hardware is missing outright.

Don't believe me? Star Citizen could run on the PS4 or X1X. The devs can't make it work though because both consoles are missing the actual hardware that could make it work...an SSD.

XS has a CPU/GPU/RAM etc and because it has enough of the basics and because it's not as old as the 360 it won't hold the XSX back.

 

[Kvally]

At the end of ghe day games target the lowest denominator.So, Xbox targets Xbox One for the first 2 years. So , other than a few obvous bells and whistles XSX are going to be massively held back. Same for third party games I would expect.

Sony on the other hand, is having PS5 exclusives day 1, unless I missed them say otherwise. Therefor, it should mean PS5 exclusives should be far more impressive...At least initially.

I haven't seen any exclusives announced for the PS5 yet. But we do know that 343 confirmed that Infinite is being designed for the Series X and then ported down. So they are targeting the Series X and Windows PC.

 

[TeKPhaN]

That's not a exclusive nor could it use all of XSX strengths due to XBO/X and PC version limitations.

 

[Kvally]

That's not a exclusive nor could it use all of XSX strengths due to XBO/X and PC version limitations.

The game developer, 343, says it will use all of the XSX strength.

 

[TeKPhaN]

The game developer, 343, says it will use all of the XSX strength.

No way! I thought they would tell us they had to make HI with the Jaguar and non RT GPU in mind!

 

[JinCA]

Having to make a game that'll work on old hardware absolutely impacts game design, if you want it to run on older hardware it has to take some limitations into account, why do you think devs wanted SSD's in the first place? it wasn't just so we could get to the game faster.

 

[JinCA]

I know people are going to start pointing out the witcher 3 on switch as proof that you can make modern games on old hardware. That game has a ton of compromises and it took a separate studio to do it, you aren't going to see a ton of publishers want to commit a ton of resources to trying to make a game that truly takes full advantage of next gen console also run on current gen. What we'll likely see is 3rd party games targeting current gen for a while and just prettying up the next gen versions as much as they can and save the real "next gen" games for a couple of years down the line when PS4 and X1 are no longer supported.

 

[bullzeye]

There's still lots of chatter on Reddit about wanting to go PlayStation because of exclusives games so it's not all doom and gloom. Seems Sony should have a big thank you to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica, even Insomniac for the stellar games they've put out for the system

 

[pravus]

There's still lots of chatter on Reddit about wanting to go PlayStation because of exclusives games so it's not all doom and gloom. Seems Sony should have a big thank you to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica, even Insomniac for the stellar games they've put out for the system

Those are the three reasons I'm buying a PS5.

 

[yankeessuck]

There's still lots of chatter on Reddit about wanting to go PlayStation because of exclusives games so it's not all doom and gloom. Seems Sony should have a big thank you to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica, even Insomniac for the stellar games they've put out for the system

Well I would guess any doom and gloom would just be concern trolling. We are talking about a system we have never seen, don't know its price, its date, almost any of its features, and never seen any of its games.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

/whoosh

Anyway let's get back to the topic of the PS5.

The audio ability on this thing is going to be nuts!!

 

[Dtwice]

There's still lots of chatter on Reddit about wanting to go PlayStation because of exclusives games so it's not all doom and gloom. Seems Sony should have a big thank you to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica, even Insomniac for the stellar games they've put out for the system

That's what it all boils down to though. Games, games, games

 

[DriedMangoes]

There's still lots of chatter on Reddit about wanting to go PlayStation because of exclusives games so it's not all doom and gloom. Seems Sony should have a big thank you to Naughty Dog and Santa Monica, even Insomniac for the stellar games they've put out for the system

Yup, PS5 exclusives are some of the best games I've ever played. The Last of Us might be my favourite story game of all time.

 

[TeKPhaN]

I think both companies are equal with the exclusives this gen.

 

[Spiritech]

I'm pretty sure end the end the power difference wont matter much. The way sony is doing backwards compatibility bums me out.

 

[karmakid]

Having to make a game that'll work on old hardware absolutely impacts game design, if you want it to run on older hardware it has to take some limitations into account, why do you think devs wanted SSD's in the first place? it wasn't just so we could get to the game faster.

exactly, wonder how it’ll affect pc ports

 

[JinCA]

 

[starseeker]

Rule one of fanboyism arguments:
Power don't matters when your console of choice is not the better one.

 

[menace-uk-]

I haven't seen any exclusives announced for the PS5 yet. But we do know that 343 confirmed that Infinite is being designed for the Series X and then ported down. So they are targeting the Series X and Windows PC.

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day they are the same game, and have to be. It will basically be the X1X again.It makes sense to port down, but doesn't change the fact that the X1 is a massive limiter of what they can make.

Why would you have seen them announced? We are still months away from the time they usually announce that stuff.

 

[Kvally]

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day they are the same game, and have to be. It will basically be the X1X again.It makes sense to port down, but doesn't change the fact that the X1 is a massive limiter of what they can make.

Why would you have seen them announced? We are still months away from the time they usually announce that stuff.

I said that because you said they have exclusives day one.

As for 343, they are the ones that said designed for Series X.

 

[menace-uk-]

I said that because you said they have exclusives day one.

As for 343, they are the ones that said designed for Series X.

Iknow I did. Is there any reason to say otherwise? Nope.

And you think that means what from 343 exactly? It is really simple, if the XSx has no exclusives the game is the same across all SKUs...Just like it is now with X1X,X1S, and X1. Expect anything more and you will be massively disappointed.