Unreal Engine 5 demo running on PS5

hrudey

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Um, no, accessing 100GB of data requires accessing 100 GB of data and there's no way to compress anything of any real-world use enough to reduce that to be read in one second from any consumer SSD.

A better analogy is filling a glass of water vs a swimming pool. A high pressure fire hose can fill the pool much faster, but if you want a glass of water, a tap faucet at much lower pressure is the right choice. Raw sequential read is the fire hose: if you want to push as much through from the huge container into another, maximum flow is king. But getting specific, smaller chunks of data from the disk is an entirely different optimization challenge, and that's what the velocity architecture stuff and all that is targeting. My guess is that both consoles will do that well, so PS5 will get the data into main memory faster at startup, game and level loads, etc, but the chances of I/O bottlenecks with these devices is pretty much nil.
 
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menace-uk-

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Um, no, accessing 100GB of data requires accessing 100 GB of data and there's no way to compress anything of any real-world use enough to reduce that to be read in one second from any consumer SSD.

A better analogy is filling a glass of water vs a swimming pool. A high pressure fire hose can fill the pool much faster, but if you want a glass of water, a tap faucet at much lower pressure is the right choice. Raw sequential read is the fire hose: if you want to push as much through from the huge container into another, maximum flow is king. But getting specific, smaller chunks of data from the disk is an entirely different optimization challenge, and that's what the velocity architecture stuff and all that is targeting. My guess is that both consoles will do that well, so PS5 will get the data into main memory faster at startup, game and level loads, etc, but the chances of I/O bottlenecks with these devices is pretty much nil.
It isn't reading 100GB in 1 second. They just have instant access to anything in that 100GB file.
 

VaLLiancE

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Epic CEO Says Sony’s PS5 SSD is ‘Best in Class’ and ‘Better Than High-End PCs,’ PC Will Need to Catch Up With PS5

"Sony’s storage system is absolutely world-class. Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform, better than high-end PCs. This is going to enable the types of immersion we only could have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in and geometry popping up as your going through these game environments are ended. "

"We’ve been working super close with Sony(you don't say! OneBadMutha) for quite a long time on storage. The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."
 
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Rollins

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Epic CEO Says Sony’s PS5 SSD is ‘Best in Class’ and ‘Better Than High-End PCs,’ PC Will Need to Catch Up With PS5

"Sony’s storage system is absolutely world-class. Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform, better than high-end PCs. This is going to enable the types of immersion we only could have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in and geometry popping up as your going through these game environments are ended. "

"We’ve been working super close with Sony(you don't say! OneBadMutha) for quite a long time on storage. The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."
Yes, I saw this. But my quoted post says the SSD they have is not even necessary to produce the UE5 demo they showed. Nor do you need a super powerful setup:

 
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Shawn Jelsic

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It was meant as the debut of UE5 not the PS5, they simply ran the demo on PS5, everyone who talked to Geoff after it was from Epic there wasn't anyone from Sony there. I don't expect ever PS5 game to look like that, I'm sure we'll see a bunch of cross gen games that look just like the XSX games from last week but I do expect Sony 1st party to be somewhere close to this, that engine GG has is already doing an amazing job on the PS4, Horizon ZD looks amazing and no matter what anyone thinks of Kojima's latest brain fart Death Stranding as a game the graphics in that game are still some of the best this gen.

Had they chosen a different platform people would be talking about that one instead but they went with PS5, this was meant for GDC btw and was going to be playable there but the event was cancelled so they saved it for this. It does seem like they are really hyping up the SSD speed so that may be a part of why they went with Sony or they could have some kind of business arrangement although marketing rights to an engine seems a bit unrealistic. I believe most of MS's first party studios use UE4 while only Sony Bend and one of their much smaller studios use it, the rest of Sony's first part devs have their own in house engines so it is a curious choice to go with PS5 to show off their new baby.
The thing about next generation consoles is the potential behind them. Because this footage is the first of it's kind, it becomes difficult to imagine anything beyond that. It reminds me of the footage that was unveiled from the previous consoles before this one and how they originally looked so impressive back then. But as those generations carried on, a lot of those in-game assets were not only met but also surpassed.

This here is a playable demo running on an Unreal Engine. A lot of Sony's first party uses their own engines dedicated only to that platform. Having said that, i don't think this expressive demo is the peak barrier at all. I'm expecting Sony's developers to hit beyond this mark.
 

menace-uk-

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The thing about next generation consoles is the potential behind them. Because this footage is the first of it's kind, it becomes difficult to imagine anything beyond that. It reminds me of the footage that was unveiled from the previous consoles before this one and how they originally looked so impressive back then. But as those generations carried on, a lot of those in-game assets were not only met but also surpassed.

This here is a playable demo running on an Unreal Engine. A lot of Sony's first party uses their own engines dedicated only to that platform. Having said that, i don't think this expressive demo is the peak barrier at all. I'm expecting Sony's developers to hit beyond this mark.
Oh the flip side this tech demo lacks alot of what you see in a typical game.

It is just a game of wait and see. Thankfully, that wait isn't very long now.
 
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Shawn Jelsic

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Yes, I saw this. But my quoted post says the SSD they have is not even necessary to produce the UE5 demo they showed. Nor do you need a super powerful setup:

And you're right, it's not.

Im sure that is why they are able to run the engine on mobile devices and scale it all the way up to a high-end PC. But that demo that was running on the PS5 was SSD heavy. Meaning, the SSD in a high-end PC is being performed by more than twice it's speed. That's the point. So no one is saying the demo can't be ran or some of the effects in that demo are impossible. I'm sure a lot of platforms could run that demo, but to run that demo effectively as it was ran on the PS5 console is the real question.

GamesBeat: Obviously the whole thing is scalable to current mobile phones and older machines, but on the higher end, as seen in the demo for the PS5, is there something in particular about the architecture that makes these features possible now that weren’t available in the past on the PlayStation 4?

Nicholas Penwarden:
Some of it just advances in the speed of the hardware, the CPU and GPU, as well as the new I/O capabilities of the next generation of platforms, allowing us to stream in a lot more data on the fly. One of the things that Nanite does is it only keeps the actual triangles in memory that you need around you. When you have scenes with tens of billions of triangles, it wouldn’t be practical to have all that data in memory at once. You need to be able to stream that in dynamically as the viewpoint moves around.

GamesBeat: Is that because of things like the SSD? Or is there a lot more cloud technology at work here making a difference?

Penwarden:
In this case it’s the SSD and other hardware features in the next-gen consoles that enable that.

In Mark Cerny's keynote The road to PlayStation, this is what Cerny was talking about at around 10:00 to 10:28.
 

de3d1

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Considering it's running at 1440p 30fps with no AI onscreen, no raytracing, I'm not impressed at all. This looks like something X1X, maybe even ps4 pro could do at 900-1080p running bare bones like that. It's just when I look at games like Horizon ZD and i imagine it being customized in corridors vs a huge open world, I just don't see a massive difference at all. Does not look next gen to me without AI onscreen with actual gameplay calculations.
 

menace-uk-

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Considering it's running at 1440p 30fps with no AI onscreen, no raytracing, I'm not impressed at all. This looks like something X1X, maybe even ps4 pro could do at 900-1080p running bare bones like that. It's just when I look at games like Horizon ZD and i imagine it being customized in corridors vs a huge open world, I just don't see a massive difference at all. Does not look next gen to me without AI onscreen with actual gameplay calculations.
Seriously doubt it. The real time GI shown here is very intensive. And don't think the slow HDDs would allow for that kind of geometry/textures either.

Make no mistake, this is very next gen stuff. How representative is it of a real game? That is up for debate.
 
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Rollins

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Not believing that.
It was confirmed by Epic’s CTO:


World Today News was able to confirm that the tech demo can run on an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super GPU with a solid-state drive (SSD). Ideally, the gaming machine would have an NVMe SSD, which offers faster data transfer rates. The writer wrote the following, paraphrasing CTO Libreri.

Can the demo work on a modern PC with the GeForce RTX 2070 Super? According to Mr. Libreri, yes, and the results will be 'pretty good.' For comparison: the PS5 graphics accelerator, on which the demonstration was run, is capable of providing up to 10.28 teraflops (TFLOPS), and the GeForce RTX 2070 Super has a theoretical performance of 9 TFLOPS.
 

menace-uk-

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It was confirmed by Epic’s CTO:


World Today News was able to confirm that the tech demo can run on an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super GPU with a solid-state drive (SSD). Ideally, the gaming machine would have an NVMe SSD, which offers faster data transfer rates. The writer wrote the following, paraphrasing CTO Libreri.
What does "pretty good" mean? Sub 30FPS, 1080P, less GI bounces, lower quality geometry?
 
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VaLLiancE

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It was confirmed by Epic’s CTO:


World Today News was able to confirm that the tech demo can run on an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super GPU with a solid-state drive (SSD). Ideally, the gaming machine would have an NVMe SSD, which offers faster data transfer rates. The writer wrote the following, paraphrasing CTO Libreri.
No way the fidelity/resolution level that it was running on PS5.





And you can't look and say 9 vs 10.3 either cause RDNA 2.0 gives more performance per TF AND PS5 uses custom parts in a set environment so the gap is even larger.

It was also confirmed that UE 5 can run on mobile and current gen.
 

JinCA

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It was confirmed by Epic’s CTO:


World Today News was able to confirm that the tech demo can run on an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super GPU with a solid-state drive (SSD). Ideally, the gaming machine would have an NVMe SSD, which offers faster data transfer rates. The writer wrote the following, paraphrasing CTO Libreri.
Taken from Neogaf regarding what the Chinese Epic rep said.

The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.

-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.

-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.

-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.

-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.

-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.

-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
 

JinCA

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People are making this about PS5 a bit too much it's an incomplete engine, it's not doing everything the PS5 is capable of and people shouldn't take what this is doing as the PS5's limit. It's a great look at what next gen can bring, clearly gameplay from a real game needs to be seen before we all put too much faith in this, I'm sure in time we'll see better looking games than this demo. Things where the environment can show damage, with great looking trees, foliage, water, enemies, weather effects etc. I know some people complain about no other characters on screen, each of those statues already have more geometry than a character model would need. The only thing is they don't have any AI, animation, physics ect.
 
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GordoSan

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Are people happy with this kind of visual if you have to sacrifice 60fps? Cuz this is running at 30. I know I'm cool with it, but how about the 60fps or bust people?
For this type of game, yes. Racing, FPS, side-scroller...no. Not a complete deal-breaker either, but we needone hell of a tradeoff. Honestly, I know that the character face was pretty bad in this, but if Ass Creed showed actual gameplay that had this level of detail, people wouldn't be b****ing so much about 30fps, either. It's just that something has to look like a leap forward.
 

de3d1

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Seriously doubt it. The real time GI shown here is very intensive. And don't think the slow HDDs would allow for that kind of geometry/textures either.

Make no mistake, this is very next gen stuff. How representative is it of a real game? That is up for debate.
Looking at it, it just looks like its more taxing than anything else, I just don't see a big difference from 1st party current-gen, considering its only 1440p 30fps on a 10TF machine, but with no AI onscreen or raytracing. That's an already incredibly low bar without combat effects and AI physics this would be even lower resolutions. Maybe you're right and it would tank current-gen, but looking at what is gained, I'd prefer other engines to see if they perform better. The taxation to reward ratio isn't there for me.

I feel like you could run near early 2000s cgi level games on 720p 30fps but it's just not worth the tradeoff of looking at those fuzzy visuals on my 4k set. 1440p is obviously much better, but a long way to go considering everything that was left out to make it a playable game.
 
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OneBadMutha

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Can't stand that mofo.
MS must be paying him well and the spin is real.
Why? He's not saying anything that other devs aren't saying. It comes down to balance. You're limited by your weakest component. Compute matters in terms of drawing assets. Fast IOs removes a previous bottleneck but overkill doesn't make up for compute. SSDs have no compute capabilities.

DF was supposedly biased against Microsoft when they had the weaker hardware and now it's the other way around. John has always been one of the most measured people in the industry. He's correcting misconceptions. Not fighting for a corporation.
 
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Rockatansky

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Epic CEO Says Sony’s PS5 SSD is ‘Best in Class’ and ‘Better Than High-End PCs,’ PC Will Need to Catch Up With PS5

"Sony’s storage system is absolutely world-class. Not only the best-in-class on console, but also the best on any platform, better than high-end PCs. This is going to enable the types of immersion we only could have dreamed of in the past. The world of loading screens is over. The days of pop-in and geometry popping up as your going through these game environments are ended. "

"We’ve been working super close with Sony(you don't say! OneBadMutha) for quite a long time on storage. The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."
How will the PC Master Race ever recover? lmao
 

JinCA

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the butthurt is real haha
I just don't get why, it's an engine and it'll work on XSX, PC and pretty much every current platform as well just not all at the same level. The PS5 will be able to handle certain things better, the XSX will handle certain things better, some PC's will handle certain things better and current consoles and moderately powered PC's without a cutting edge SSD will all have to be scaled down considerably.