Xbox Cloud compared to PS now

David

David

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Sep 11, 2013
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Ok I just don't understand. When MS was talking about cloud I kept hearing its a pipe dream. http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-brings-halo-4-to-the-nokia-lumia-520-via-cloud-streaming/ link since this article is rarely mentioned.

Now PS is supposed to be doing the "Now" in a shorter timeframe, and its "the greatest." So since I'm so ignorant to this stuff hear is a thread for people like me to get informed. Hopefully this will be both entertaining, and informative. If not oh well.

BTW we all know what this thread will turn into. I was just didn't make it the title fearing the thread would be closed.
 
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I'm interested in playing some PS3 games I didn't get to play through PS Now. I had no idea MS had a similar service coming out.
 
Are people really arguing over this? They are 2 completely different things.
Both have the potential to be awesome if they work.
 
Jay Mammoth said:
Are people really arguing over this? They are 2 completely different things.
Both have the potential to be awesome if they work.
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I linked, and have the wrong article saved am looking for the article that "clearly states" MS is working on and has internally testing same thing. Using Nokia phones and using Halo 4
 
Sorry it took so long but I found one of the articles that I was talking about, and they clearly say CLOUD, as I said I'm ignorant about this stuff so I'm going by what I read.
 
David said:
I linked, and have the wrong article saved am looking for the article that "clearly states" MS is working on and has internally testing same thing. Using Nokia phones and using Halo 4
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Oh thats cool then. Like I said lets hope it works well, I'm excited but skeptical. Hoping to get into the beta for PS Now.
 
David said:
Sorry it took so long but I found one of the articles that I was talking about, and they clearly say CLOUD, as I said I'm ignorant about this stuff so I'm going by what I read.
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Cloud is only a buzz word that refers to scale-able processing. Many things are called 'cloud' but can do different things. Playstation Now is a streaming service, more like a gaming version of Netflix. It's from a company called Gaikai that Sony bought. The Azure cloud for Xbox One is for offloading process computations and dedicated servers (probably more than that actually) so that games like Forza and Titanfall can have their game AI processed outside of the actual game or so too speak.
 
D-V-ANT said:
Cloud is only a buzz word that refers to scale-able processing. Many things are called 'cloud' but can do different things. Playstation Now is a streaming service, more like a gaming version of Netflix. It's from a company called Gaikai that Sony bought. The Azure cloud for Xbox One is for offloading process computations and dedicated servers (probably more than that actually) so that games like Forza and Titanfall can have their game AI processed outside of the actual game or so too speak.
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Hence the link I put.
 
David said:
Ok I just don't understand. When MS was talking about cloud I kept hearing its a pipe dream. http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-brings-halo-4-to-the-nokia-lumia-520-via-cloud-streaming/ link since this article is rarely mentioned.
Now PS is supposed to be doing the "Now" in a shorter timeframe, and its "the greatest." So since I'm so ignorant to this stuff hear is a thread for people like me to get informed. Hopefully this will be both entertaining, and informative. If not oh well.
BTW we all know what this thread will turn into. I was just didn't make it the title fearing the thread would be closed.
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It's not the same. :-/ This isn't brand new games.
The main bottleneck on these kind of services is similar - internet-speed, server-farm location and your location, and server workload. :-/

MS PR speak lead most people to believe that you'd get a enourmous quality-boost due to the power of the cloud, i.e. improve the general game-quality, higher FPS, etc, due to super-computers running the code instead of your local weak and slow console - so if 6 million people buy and play the next call of duty on Xbox One, there would be 6 million sessions of superior versions of the game running serverside - rather than locally, and somehow transfer all data instantaneously to players and integrate the improvements in your game. :-/ This would generate a enourmous workload, and require a massive bandwith.

What Sony is launching, is a rental service were you run older games in the clouds, and receive a 720p quality compressed stream - i.e. I'm assuming they have a much lower workload on their serverfarms running the software.
If you are going to play Journey - you can join in with PS3-players, playing a downgraded version on PSNow via your online-session streaming using the TV/tablet and PS4 - but the majority of players would probably still be using the PS3-version. :-/
If you got a bad connection, Sony will downgrade your stream.

i.e. it's basically the same solution when comparing a Netflix stream to a Bluray-quality movie, while what MS spokespersons were talking about is if they wanted something better than Bluray quality.
There will still be massive serverload, especially during client-launches on various platforms when a large group wants to test it at once - but for the most part I think the stream is going to be fine for most people having the bandwith they require - this is much smaller scale, it's not going to be millions of people playing the same games each time a new game launches - so this step seems more realistic to pull off with todays broadband availability to me. :-/
 
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One is a CPU based cloud service the other is GPU based; neither one of them are going to execute the promises the companies are making nearly as well as everyone thinks. Sony isn't promising that your graphics will magically look 40x better they're simply doing what Gaikai and Onlive did, allow you to stream games. And like Gaikai and Onlive for PC it'll be an "okay" experience...I guess.
 
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I think MS cloud is very differnt from PS NOW.

I do think MS has been caught napping, underestimating the capability their competitors are capable of, just because they are a massive software house.

Already, many people have voice out that they prefer PS4 UI than XBOX one, & MS have been doing UI for all the while.
 
David said:
Now PS is supposed to be doing the "Now" in a shorter timeframe, and its "the greatest." So since I'm so ignorant to this stuff hear is a thread for people like me to get informed. Hopefully this will be both entertaining, and informative. If not oh well.

BTW we all know what this thread will turn into. I was just didn't make it the title fearing the thread would be closed.
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That's cool, we probably needed a thread to discuss the differences.

From what I've been hearing on this forum, people do not think PS Now is "the greatest." Several knowledgeable people are pretty skeptical of it, and even its supporters acknowledge that it's going to take a long while to get it working well and to have a wide selection of games available. And even then, there will probably be several genres that will not work (e.g., fighting, racing, online FPS). So, there are plenty of doubts and qualifications being expressed.
 
I think most of the "hate" towards MS's Cloud is from BS spewed by the likes of astro who claimed the cloud would magically allow the X1 to run at super high resolution, free AA, and pretty much look like the X1 had quad Titans running in it.
 
I will be really surprised of PlaystationNow works well. I can't imagine that a streaming service is going to work well with twitch games and platformers, regardless of the resolution. Those types of games are just too sensitive to latency and when you're sending graphics and audio in addition to positional and response data, I just don't think anything short of fiber to the home is going to be enough. This is one of those cases where I would not mind at all if I'm proven wrong but I just can't see it working well. isn't PS Now essentially the same as OnLive?
 
Viktor said:
I think most of the "hate" towards MS's Cloud is from BS spewed by the likes of astro who claimed the cloud would magically allow the X1 to run at super high resolution, free AA, and pretty much look like the X1 had quad Titans running in it.
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Where is Astro by the way. He seems to have disappeared since the new generation of console launched.
 
Well when 2/3 of the stuff you've been proclaiming from roof tops turns out to be s*** and people remember and call you out on it every time you post, I too would disappear for a while.
 
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David said:
No ketto I have to sleep. Geez man. Yes read some posts on the now thread. They are saying its the greatest. Read the link it says that they are working on it internally. They are streaming games. What is your deal dude. A person doesn't respond to one of your post when you want them to and there hiding. Ad I said I DONT KNOW ABOUT THIS STUFF! Why don't you actually read what I wrote!
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Ketto's comment is in regards to another poster here, astrograd, not you. Pretty sure at least. o_O
 
:confused::oops: Man I really need to follow my own advice. I really thought I deleted that like 2 seconds after I posted that, and saw they were talking about astrograd. Don't I feel stupid.
 
Excellent question, man.

Bottom line, a "cloud" in this context is just a bunch of computers located in different datacenter around the world with VM's (virtual machines) running code which is then utilized by a remote client somewhere. It can be used to process all kinds of different tasks ranging from web hosting to Netflix like entertainment streaming, to full game rendering with the local client (PC, tablet, phone) simply streaming video and sending control commands to the service (OnLive, Gaikai/PlayStation Now/MS's test run with Halo 4 via Nokia devices).

Sony's vision for their "cloud":

- (CPU bound) Use it for PS services (like matchmaking, data hosting, digital distribution store, etc.)

- (GPU bound) Use it for full game rendering/streaming. The 'client' simply sends commands to the cloud VM, cloud VM manipulates the game per the user commands, and the results are compressed and streamed in real-time to the user.

Microsoft's vision for the cloud:

- (CPU bound) Use it for Xbox LIVE services (matchmaking, user data, title managed storage, profile syncing/hosting, etc.)

- (CPU bound/Possibly GPU bound) Use it to offload tasks f rom being run locally (think about Turn 10's utilization with Drivatar. They track how you play, the 'cloud' service takes that data, and then builds a 'virtual' you with your racing behaviors... and the service then hosts MP sessions when users race, so when you race against an opponent in Forza, you're actually connecting to an MP session with the AI all managed by the drivatar system). It could be that down the line, someone will figure out a useful way of offloading rendering tasks, and using cloud GPU for something useful which isn't latency sensitive (Galactic Reign on WP and Win8 used cloud GPU rendering, but it was asynchronous rendering, i.e. not real-time streaming).

- (GPU bound) Maybe some time in the future, use it for full game rendering/streaming (Like OnLive, PlayStation Now, etc.)

MS has released comments suggesting the streaming tech isn't ready for customer consumption, and I tend to agree. High-frame-rate/twitch gameplay is massively impacted by the inherent lag/latency and compression artifacting. When Sony demoed PlayStation Now, they did so on a local connection with the host hardware being mere feet away from the connected clients - and even with that kind of an EXTREMELY ideal connection - there was noticeable lag... put it in the real world over the internet, and those who aren't next door to the datacenter with top tier ISP connections probably aren't going to be having a very good experience.

In any case, there's also a huge disparity between total 'cloud investment' between the two, from what I can tell. Microsoft's investment has been incredibly massive... with Azure datacenters all around the world, set up with world-class, award winning configurations. I don't know how many data centers Sony has set up to support PlayStation Now, but I'm quite sure it's not on the same level as Microsoft's Azure datacenter distribution...

So when people say, "the cloud is just a gimmick", they're referring to one of two things - First: a perceived promise that MS will deliver 'better graphics' via cloud usage. Second, the actual promise that games can be vastly improved with cloud compute power. For that first issue - MS has never promised better graphics with the cloud... they've simply stated that there's untapped potential there... and they're right. Nvidia demoed some interesting lighting enhancements which were rendered in the cloud... but in any case - that's never been the promise. The promise is that with cloud compute, you can have 'living worlds' which exist outside of yoru local client. Every game *can* have dedicated servers (if the dev knows how to build the feature), and much more. For the second issue - some people just don't understand that there are real benefits to offloading compute load to the cloud, but it's new and not everyone knows what to do with it. I think Turn 10 did a great job using it... their Drivatar system is literally impossible for local game consoles to perform or mimic...

Therefore, it's not a gimmick, but it's also not some revolutionary huge differentiator... *yet*. :-)

Portions of their approaches are the same (they both use the cloud for PSN/Xbox LIVE services)... but they're aslo different approaches... Sony thinks it can solve the full game streaming dilemma, and while MS has already developed tech to do the same, they're not confident the rest of the world is ready for it... So again, MS has done everything Sony's trying to do... but the reverse is not true. If Sony's successful with PlayStation Now - MS could quite easily counter (they already have the tech to do it)... if MS is successful with cloud compute, Sony cannot easily/quickly counter (if at all). For example, Sony doesn't have the resources to build out the kinds of data centers MS already has - so they could never offer free 'dedicated servers' to devs like MS does...

Wow... that was quite a book. Hope that helps.
 
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Flynn said:
Excellent question, man.

Bottom line, a "cloud" in this context is just a bunch of computers located in different datacenter around the world with VM's (virtual machines) running code which is then utilized by a remote client somewhere. It can be used to process all kinds of different tasks ranging from web hosting to Netflix like entertainment streaming, to full game rendering with the local client (PC, tablet, phone) simply streaming video and sending control commands to the service (OnLive, Gaikai/PlayStation Now/MS's test run with Halo 4 via Nokia devices).

Sony's vision for their "cloud":

- Use it for PS services (like matchmaking, data hosting, digital distribution store, etc.)
- Use it for full game rendering/streaming. The 'client' simply sends commands to the cloud VM, cloud VM manipulates the game per the user commands, and the results are compressed and streamed in real-time to the user.

Microsoft's vision for the cloud:

- Use it for Xbox LIVE services (matchmaking, user data, title managed storage, profile syncing/hosting, etc.)
- Use it to offload tasks f rom being run locally (think about Turn 10's utilization with Drivatar. They track how you play, the 'cloud' service takes that data, and then builds a 'virtual' you with your racing behaviors... and the service then hosts MP sessions when users race, so when you race against an opponent in Forza, you're actually connecting to an MP session with the AI all managed by the drivatar system).
- Maybe some time in the future, use it for full game rendering/streaming (Like OnLive, PlayStation Now, etc.)

MS has released comments suggesting the streaming tech isn't ready for customer consumption, and I tend to agree. High-frame-rate/twitch gameplay is massively impacted by the inherent lag/latency and compression artifacting. When Sony demoed PlayStation Now, they did so on a local connection with the host hardware being mere feet away from the connected clients - and even with that kind of an EXTREMELY ideal connection - there was noticeable lag... put it in the real world over the internet, and those who aren't next door to the datacenter with top tier ISP connections probably aren't going to be having a very good experience.

In any case, there's also a huge disparity between total 'cloud investment' between the two, from what I can tell. Microsoft's investment has been incredibly massive... with Azure datacenters all around the world, set up with world-class, award winning configurations. I don't know how many data centers Sony has set up to support PlayStation Now, but I'm quite sure it's not on the same level as Microsoft's Azure datacenter distribution...

So when people say, "the cloud is just a gimmick", they're referring to one of two things - First: a perceived promise that MS will deliver 'better graphics' via cloud usage. Second, the actual promise that games can be vastly improved with cloud compute power. For that first issue - MS has never promised better graphics with the cloud... they've simply stated that there's untapped potential there... and they're right. Nvidia demoed some interesting lighting enhancements which were rendered in the cloud... but in any case - that's never been the promise. The promise is that with cloud compute, you can have 'living worlds' which exist outside of yoru local client. Every game *can* have dedicated servers (if the dev knows how to build the feature), and much more. For the second issue - some people just don't understand that there are real benefits to offloading compute load to the cloud, but it's new and not everyone knows what to do with it. I think Turn 10 did a great job using it... their Drivatar system is literally impossible for local game consoles to perform or mimic...

So it's not a gimmick, but it's also not some revolutionary huge differentiator... *yet*. :-)

So they're different approaches, and they're solving different problems... but MS has done everything Sony's trying to do... the reverse is not true. So, if Sony's successful with PlayStation Now - MS could quite easily counter... if MS is successful with cloud compute, Sony cannot counter. For example, Sony doesn't have the resources to build out the kinds of data centers MS already has - so they could never offer free 'dedicated servers' to devs like MS does...

Wow... that was quite a book. Hope that helps.
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Why did they say cloud when talking about how MS was working on a service to let original and X360 games to be played on phones and tablits. I think this is the part that is confusing me. 2 Why is nobody mentioning this service that MS is working on?
 
Ketto said:
One is a CPU based cloud service the other is GPU based; neither one of them are going to execute the promises the companies are making nearly as well as everyone thinks. Sony isn't promising that your graphics will magically look 40x better they're simply doing what Gaikai and Onlive did, allow you to stream games. And like Gaikai and Onlive for PC it'll be an "okay" experience...I guess.
Click to expand...

I'm quite confident PlayStation Now will not be what Sony promises, but I'm actually not so sure cloud compute won't be what we've promised.

Forza already shows - today - that cloud compute can make a huge difference in AI. I've never raced in a racing game before against a non-human player, and seen so many human-like mistakes, self-corrections, and deviations from typical AI lines and behaviors. It's really an underrated achievement right now, because it's not something which is obvious and immediately recognizable.

So I'm curious, what claims did MS make about cloud compute that you don't think will be lived up to?
 
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Iys hard for me to access the new like system. Lot of info being put on here. Sorry I can't give some "props" to people.
 
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