Xbox One Developer Explains 1080P Difficulties

aceattorney said:
KZ isn't even truly native 1080p, from what I understand. It still looks great though.
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Again, so what? It is not 1080P/60FPS. So again does that stat really matter? You just implied no, which I agree with. Ryse is 900P and looks better then either game. Again, 1080P/60FPS at the end of the day doesn't really mean much of anything in and of itself. On the PC, sure it means something as it means the difference between a video card and another. With consoles it is not that simple nor straightforward.
 
Ceger said:
I was saying that 1080P is a separate function of all the other things hardware can do. If PS4 can do 1080P more often than X1, it doesn't mean it has the muscle across the board to do things. There are plenty of things the X1 will do more of than the PS4; it is not about just resolution, or any other single thing. For all the cr@p DR3 gets, it has realtime lighting, reflections, physics and thousands of NPC. It makes a much more engrossing gameplay environment than having 1080P/60FPS stats.
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Ceger said:
Again, so what? It is not 1080P/60FPS. So again does that stat really matter? You just implied no, which I agree with. Ryse is 900P and looks better then either game. Again, 1080P/60FPS at the end of the day doesn't really mean much of anything in and of itself. On the PC, sure it means something as it means the difference between a video card and another. With consoles it is not that simple nor straightforward.
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There's some kind of miscommunication between you and me, but we agree with each other: the claimed necessity for 1080p on consoles is greatly exaggerated.
 
menace-uk- said:
The Initial reveal was missing a lot of things. The Physics engine for example was missing a lot of advanced features, and the physics engine is a resource intensive aspect of a racing game. Also, Pics never do games justice, watching Forza 5 in videos it looks much better than that pic.
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I have seen it in person and it looks fine but it's not the graphical powerhouse some people make it out to be, IMO obviously.
 
aceattorney said:
There's some kind of miscommunication between you and me, but we agree with each other: the claimed necessity for 1080p on consoles is greatly exaggerated.
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I thought as much, but wasn't entirely sure though and just going through the rhetoric for the benefit of others that didn't understand what we were touching on.
 
I keep seeing people bringing up Directx 12 and saying the X1 is going to support it, didn't direcx 10 come out the year after the 360 launched? wasn't it only supported in a very limited way? could it end up being the same thing here?
 
JinCA said:
I have seen it in person and it looks fine but it's not the graphical powerhouse some people make it out to be, IMO obviously.
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Powerhouse, No.

However, the physics are apparently top notch and the A.I seems to be off the chain. This may sound like defending talk, but I would take them over Graphics any day. Especially in a sim based racer. It will be interesting to see what F6 is like. the graphics last gen made significant improvements time after time.
 
menace-uk- said:
Powerhouse, No.

However, the physics are apparently top notch and the A.I seems to be off the chain. This may sound like defending talk, but I would take them over Graphics any day. Especially in a sim based racer. It will be interesting to see what F6 is like. the graphics last gen made significant improvements time after time.
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Yeah it'll be interesting, the Forza series started to look very nice in the last couple of games I just can't get into sim racers myself, I find them too boring. I do think it was kind of strange how many downgrades were made to F5 visually between it's reveal and release though. It was a launch game so some things have to be forgiven.
 
As any of you know, I flipping love lists.

Let's see some lists!

900p games

Ryse
Assassins Creed 4
Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare
Thief

720p games

Call of Duty Ghosts
Battlefield 4
Killer Instinct
Powerstar Golf
Dead Rising 3
Metal Gear Solid 5: Ground Zeroes

That weird 792p resolution that only Titanfall runs at

Titanfall

I conclude that it too early to say how problematic 1080p will or won't be on Xbox One but that Titanfall resolution is almost like Microsoft pointed a gun at Respawn's collective head and said, "Don't you dare make this 720p..."

As an aside, my first computer, an Amstrad CPC464, ran games at 160×200 pixels with 16 colours, 320×200 pixels with 4 colours and 640×200 pixels with 2 colours. 720p looks like God Rays to me.
 
Ceger said:
There are plenty of things the X1 will do more of than the PS4; it is not about just resolution, or any other single thing.
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o_O

If I had a Radeon 7860 with GDDR5, and I downgraded it to a Radeon 7780, and I downgraded the memory to DDR3, what extra things could I do?
 
JinCA said:
I have seen it in person and it looks fine but it's not the graphical powerhouse some people make it out to be, IMO obviously.
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I agree with you. I honestly felt like NFS looked better. I just laugh when people try to talk up Forza. It really doesn't look that great and it definitely doesn't look as good as it did during the reveal.
 
Hissatsu said:
I agree with you. I honestly felt like NFS looked better. I just laugh when people try to talk up Forza. It really doesn't look that great and it definitely doesn't look as good as it did during the reveal.
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NFS was definitely more appealing to me and many, but for car enthusiasts and wanting realistic models and competent AI, Forza has plenty going for it in terms of being talked up. Two different genres within racing.
 
Ceger said:
NFS was definitely more appealing to me and many, but for car enthusiasts and wanting realistic models and competent AI, Forza has plenty going for it in terms of being talked up. Two different genres within racing.
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I agree. From the short time I played Forza I did think the AI was really cool and It was awesome to see someone from my friends list in my game in the form of his AI. I hate sims though and I royally sucked at the game lol. My girl and I had good laughs as we crashed around the course though haha.
 
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Yoyoniner said:
Don't forget dem 1080P crowds in Forza also move by at 60fps....

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They probably should have delayed it for a year to get dem proper 3d crowds, right?

Also, the previous crowd they had at E3 that everyone was clamoring for looked like PS1 level characters. I'm not saying what they ended up with was an actual upgrade, but it certainly looks less s***ty. A different kind of crap if you will.
 
The hardware difference dictates that the PS4 can do everything the Xbox One can but better (higher res, more effects, better game performance) on paper. Of course this is on paper and if MS can improve their SDK's, they may be able to narrow the gap.
 
pravus said:
They probably should have delayed it for a year to get dem proper 3d crowds, right?

Also, the previous crowd they had at E3 that everyone was clamoring for looked like PS1 level characters. I'm not saying what they ended up with was an actual upgrade, but it certainly looks less s***ty. A different kind of crap if you will.[/quote

I guess for racing games going forward we are supposed to focus on crowds and trees instead of what's in front of us and overall car mechanics /handling characteristics and overall simulation racing feel ??? Got it..
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That's the best part of the game bro... get real guy.
 
Looks like that "advantage" I talked about is going away with PS4's announcement of 720p Twitch streaming. On the other hand, MS says 1080p gaming will be "easier" to do as the generation moves along.
 
pravus said:
They probably should have delayed it for a year to get dem proper 3d crowds, right?

Also, the previous crowd they had at E3 that everyone was clamoring for looked like PS1 level characters. I'm not saying what they ended up with was an actual upgrade, but it certainly looks less s***ty. A different kind of crap if you will.
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Well when GT5 came out everyone was making fun of the 2D trees. Apparently people really hate 2D. A damn shame, some of my favorite gaming memories are from the 2D era. :(

*Goes off to play Melty Blood Actress Again*
 
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Ketto said:
Well when GT5 came out everyone was making fun of the 2D trees. Apparently people really hate 2D. A damn shame, some of my favorite gaming memories are from the 2D era. :(

*Goes off to play Melty Blood Actress Again*
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Funny thing when you played GT5 you couldn't notice. 2D/3D all looks the same when doing a buck eighty :)
 
menace-uk- said:
Funny thing when you played GT5 you couldn't notice. 2D/3D all looks the same when doing a buck eighty :)
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Hey I never said the complaint was valid. But Forza fans were always quick to point out those trees. Then again the whole Forza fanboys vs GT fanboys is pretty dumb within itself.
 
Ketto said:
Hey I never said the complaint was valid. But Forza fans were always quick to point out those trees. Then again the whole Forza fanboys vs GT fanboys is pretty dumb within itself.
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You know what isn't dumb, laughing at GT5 still using PS2 content and physics engine :D:D not to mention GT6 too :D:D:D
 
menace-uk- said:
You know what isn't dumb, laughing at GT5 still using PS2 content and physics engine :D:D not to mention GT6 too :D:D:D
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More valid than laughing about trees that's for sure.

Troublegum said:
http://www.totalxbox.com/73607/1080...er-over-time-assures-microsoft-hardware-boss/
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Doesn't really mean much, honestly developers can hit 1080p60 on every game right now if they wanted. It's not a fixed performance cost or anything, just depends on what sacrifices one is willing to make to get to that bulletpoint.

With that stated, I honestly expect by the end of this generation for many upon many games to be 720p on both consoles since developers are going to want to push the visual envelope at the expense of resolution.
 
Ketto said:
More valid than laughing about trees that's for sure.



Doesn't really mean much, honestly developers can hit 1080p60 on every game right now if they wanted. It's not a fixed performance cost or anything, just depends on what sacrifices one is willing to make to get to that bulletpoint.

With that stated, I honestly expect by the end of this generation for many upon many games to be 720p on both consoles since developers are going to want to push the visual envelope at the expense of resolution.
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Just more confirmation of the esram being the issue facing devs. This where the DX12 for xbox one will be helping I think with its improved tiled resources, coupled with a better SDK should hopefully see significant improvement in general.
 
Ketto said:
More valid than laughing about trees that's for sure.



Doesn't really mean much, honestly developers can hit 1080p60 on every game right now if they wanted. It's not a fixed performance cost or anything, just depends on what sacrifices one is willing to make to get to that bulletpoint.

With that stated, I honestly expect by the end of this generation for many upon many games to be 720p on both consoles since developers are going to want to push the visual envelope at the expense of resolution.
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Oh I agree, it is very much what you would expect him to say.

I think resolution will be continually sacrificed as the previous gen has shown that's what developers will turn to when they want to extract extra performance. I don't think it will be as low as 720p, except when trying to hit 60 FPS, but I can see 900p suddenly becoming the 'norm' for most 30 FPS games. We are going to see all sorts of odd resolutions and tricks being experimented with at first, 792p Titanfall was just the start.
 
menace-uk- said:
Just more confirmation of the esram being the issue facing devs. This where the DX12 for xbox one will be helping I think with its improved tiled resources, coupled with a better SDK should hopefully see significant improvement in general.
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I expect to see performance improvements due to developers getting use to the hardware in addition to more mature tools much like every generation past…scratch that like any hardware/software combo EVER, it's going to happen with Xbox One, PS4 and even Wii U. However there are people who have some crazy idea that there's going to be a fundamental shift in performance between Xbox and Playstation to include a few truly believing they'll switch places and it will be the PS4 being behind XBO because, I have no clue. They'll reach parity in the same way PS3 and 360 multiplatforms are equal...as in they're really not but close enough…I guess. I fully expect DX12 to cull a s***ton of overhead from PC development and bring it closer to console development (as much as creating an API for a myriad of devices will allow). And by extension make porting from XBO to PC and vice versa easier. Oh and mobile development too so they can nip away at OpenGL's utter dominance in the mobile arena.

But apparently my hypothesis is fanboy talk because I don't want to admit the XBO is super powerful or something like that. I dunno, I can't keep up on the ever shifting reasons anymore. Notepad wasn't created to keep track of things like this.
 
Ketto said:
I expect to see performance improvements due to developers getting use to the hardware in addition to more mature tools much like every generation past…scratch that like any hardware/software combo EVER, it's going to happen with Xbox One, PS4 and even Wii U. However there are people who have some crazy idea that there's going to be a fundamental shift in performance between Xbox and Playstation to include a few truly believing they'll switch places and it will be the PS4 being behind XBO because, I have no clue. They'll reach parity in the same way PS3 and 360 multiplatforms are equal...as in they're really not but close enough…I guess. I fully expect DX12 to cull a s***ton of overhead from PC development and bring it closer to console development (as much as creating an API for a myriad of devices will allow). And by extension make porting from XBO to PC and vice versa easier. Oh and mobile development too so they can nip away at OpenGL's utter dominance in the mobile arena.

But apparently my hypothesis is fanboy talk because I don't want to admit the XBO is super powerful or something like that. I dunno, I can't keep up on the ever shifting reasons anymore. Notepad wasn't created to keep track of things like this.
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Your forgetting cloud based ray-tracing :D:D fundamental performance shift confirmed:D

Seriously though, I think you nailed it here. The Key is parity and it pretty much closing the performance gaps we see right now.
 
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