PS4 Pro discussion.

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Shawn Jelsic said:
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"PlayStation 4 Pro made its big debut yesterday, and Sony is selling it as a 4K gaming box. But most of the games the company showed were not rendering a native 4K image. Instead, you were probably seeing something closer to 1440p or 1800p. That’s quite a lot less detail than 2160p — although, for the Sony’s new supersystem, it doesn’t matter.

The PS4 Pro does not have the horsepower to render native 4K. Developers are already admitting that. Guerrilla Games confirmed that it isn’t rendering Horizon: Zero Dawn, its open-world sci-fi adventure, at the 3,840 x 2160 resolution that is standard for 4K. Sony itself plainly stated yesterday during its event in Manhattan that it didn’t want to make a machine that could fill all 8 million pixels of a 4K television set."

Mark Cerny: Brute-force rendering techniques can of course be used to support 4K displays, but they have unfortunate consequences for console cost and form factor.”
http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/08/ps4-pro-isnt-4k-that-doesnt-matter/

To put it simple, Sony has found a way to achieve 4K without the need of brute force or a significantly more powerful system, if you will. So unless you plan on sticking a magnifying glass up to the screen, you are not going to know the difference. Anyone else without their knowledge would have to render that screen native for the same results leaving fewer resources to be used elsewhere.

These guys are not a hardware company for nothing.

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Its not TRUE 4K though
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
It doesn't matter the size of the display; its the technology that Sony is using inside their system is what makes 4K quality possible without having to rely on some super chip or beefed-up spec machine to achieve such results. In fact, they recommend a 60" at minimum for best results.
http://twinfinite.net/2016/09/sony-ultimate-faq-ps4-pro-60-4k-tv/

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You can't cheat true 4k. There's a difference, and Sony has done a good job of achieving a decent middle ground. Side by side, PC and scorpio will show better iq. Even eurogamer was impressed, but they noticed instantly the iq wasn't real 4k, and that's without a side by side, when we have that, it'll be even more apparent.
 
VaLLiancE said:
Its not TRUE 4K though
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I never said it was true 4K. The question you should be asking yourself is whether it even matters.


VaLLiancE said:
No it doesn't make 4K gaming possible
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LoL! It makes 4K quality possible for gaming. .....that is unless you plan on dissecting the image, then it would make sense why the numbers would matter to you more than the image you are seeing. With native numbers comes a cost. I mean literally, its very pricey.
 
Another issue now we need to research is 4k TVs that have low input lag with HDR mode on, apparently having both of those isn't cheap according to some posters on gaf.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
LoL! It makes 4K quality possible for gaming. .....that is unless you plan on dissecting the image, then it would make sense why the numbers would matter to you more than the image you are seeing. With native numbers comes a cost. I mean literally, its very pricey.
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But how is it 4k quality if there's a difference? That's why we have numbers for iq. Tricks close the gap some, but doesn't mimic the quality.
 
de3d1 said:
But how is it 4k quality if there's a difference? That's why we have numbers for iq. Tricks close the gap some, but doesn't mimic the quality.
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One uses a little hardware and a bit of doctoring while the other uses raw output. And yes, it very well mimics the quality from a visual perspective.
 
de3d1 said:
You can't cheat true 4k. There's a difference, and Sony has done a good job of achieving a decent middle ground. Side by side, PC and scorpio will show better iq. Even eurogamer was impressed, but they noticed instantly the iq wasn't real 4k, and that's without a side by side, when we have that, it'll be even more apparent.
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LoL! Ok.

We can clearly see the results here.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
I never said it was true 4K. The question you should be asking yourself is whether it even matters.




LoL! It makes 4K quality possible for gaming. .....that is unless you plan on dissecting the image, then it would make sense why the numbers would matter to you more than the image you are seeing. With native numbers comes a cost. I mean literally, its very pricey.
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Very pricey ... Even with a full test rig they are using in this article were still not quite there yet but getting close for native ..
http://www.pcgamer.com/gtx-1080-review/
 
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Shawn Jelsic said:
I never said it was true 4K. The question you should be asking yourself is whether it even matters.




LoL! It makes 4K quality possible for gaming. .....that is unless you plan on dissecting the image, then it would make sense why the numbers would matter to you more than the image you are seeing. With native numbers comes a cost. I mean literally, its very pricey.
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dafug? Why it should matter what kind of dumb statement is that?


No it doesn't make TRUE 4K quality available for gaming.
 
VaLLiancE said:
I think he works for Sony like Flynn for MS....
But at least flynn puts up a decent argument/attempt.
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Btw Val, I agree with you that MS will also do the same fake 4K but better. At least for most games.

I hope MS isn't setting people up for disappointment. But then again, could Forza 7 or something be 4K/60? Maybe.
 
Dno69 said:
Btw Val, I agree with you that MS will also do the same fake 4K but better. At least for most games.

I hope MS isn't setting people up for disappointment. But then again, could Forza 7 or something be 4K/60? Maybe.
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I dunno about the same techniques unless 3rd parties share a tool set for both devices.
Plus I will got out on a limb and say even though the Pro is weaker...it might end up using a better scaler.

Yes better(closer to 4K) should be on the Scorpio.

Well I said if TRUE 4K games are on Scorpio it will be XBO quality and Forza 7 should end up 4K with the same assets as the XBO version ie cardboard cutout backs etc :p

Finally I don't expect many...heck not even more than a handful TRUE 4K games on the Pro(can't wait for TLOUR :) ) and I expect more TRUE 4K games on the Scorpio(but still not many)
 
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VaLLiancE said:
dafug? Why it should matter what kind of dumb statement is that?


No it doesn't make TRUE 4K quality available for gaming.
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I never said that. Are you secretly trying to get me to agree to that statement of yours or something? That's the second time that has come from you in regards to what I said.

Are you a purist? Its the only reason that would explain why you would be that unsettling about it. Perhaps numbers matter more to you than the quality of the picture.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
I never said that. Are you secretly trying to get me to agree to that statement of yours or something? That's the second time that has come from you in regards to what I said.

Are you a purist? Its the only reason that would explain why you would be that unsettling about it. Perhaps numbers matter more to you than the quality of the picture.
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I am a REALIST 4K quality is TRUE 4K period!

TRUE 4K gives a quality picture free of artifacts or other issues that could* happen with scaling.

But I do think we will still see good enhanced visuals and I think they will upscale nicely to 4K.
How else could Sony/MS sell it?
 
PS4 Pro has great IQ and price. We'll see what Scorpio has in regards to each.
IQ should be great. Price....?
 
Dno69 said:
PS4 Pro has great IQ and price. We'll see what Scorpio has in regards to each.
IQ should be great. Price....?
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UHD is a given for the Scorpio, as are increased specs. Even with it being over a year out I don't see how it can hit $399 initially. There could be a $150 disparity between the Scorpio and PS4 Pro by its release. It better be able to prove its worth out of the gate.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
One uses a little hardware and a bit of doctoring while the other uses raw output. And yes, it very well mimics the quality from a visual perspective.
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I just think it's much better than we are used in 1080p, which is good. However eurogamer instantly noticed it wasn't native 4k with the naked eye, and that says alot.
 
VaLLiancE said:
I am a REALIST 4K quality is TRUE 4K period!

TRUE 4K gives a quality picture free of artifacts or other issues that could* happen with scaling.

But I do think we will still see good enhanced visuals and I think they will upscale nicely to 4K.
How else could Sony/MS sell it?
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Sony labels the technique as a checkerboard effect but they are not confirming how that checkerboard effect is fully achieved, but its not upscaling that is being done here nor is it native. It appears to be something in between. Their Polaris GPU is certainly a piece of the puzzle, but some clever algorithms are another.

PS4Scaling.png
 
"de3d1, post: 564117, member: 124"]I just think it's much better than we are used in 1080p, which is good. However eurogamer instantly noticed it wasn't native 4k with the naked eye, and that says alot.
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At a particular viewing distance that is common to the human eye is where the eyes can't differentiate between the two is how they measured the performance and what they had been anticipating when they constructed the hardware. So unless you are actually looking for these imperfections (face up on the screen), the quality of the pictures resemble identicality.
 
VaLLiancE said:
They used tools to notice it
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Not the video I listened to. The Eurogamer journalist specifically said he could tell it didn't have the pinpoint clarity of native 4k with his eyes. He was in a room with other journalist, no tools.
 
Pureshooter said:
UHD is a given for the Scorpio, as are increased specs. Even with it being over a year out I don't see how it can hit $399 initially. There could be a $150 disparity between the Scorpio and PS4 Pro by its release. It better be able to prove its worth out of the gate.
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I'm thinking $499, and if that's the case I bet the Pro will remain at $399. If they can somehow manage $399, then I don't see Sony keeping the Pro at that price, so I imagine a $299 Pro. Perhaps Sony would go for the jugular and drop their slim to $199.
 
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