PS4 Pro discussion.

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Shawn Jelsic said:
At a particular viewing distance that is common to the human eye is where the eyes can't differentiate between the two is how they measured the performance and what they had been anticipating when they constructed the hardware. So unless you are actually looking for these imperfections (face up on the screen), the quality of the pictures resemble identicality.
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A "particular distance" is very vague explanation. You don't even know the exact specifications for the upscale as each pro ps4 game is different, look at what you just posted about Mass Effect, no one knows what they are using, yet you are simply blanket statement that all pro games are close enough. What? You can't prove that. You don't know unless you have seen these games on ps4 pro vs 4K PC. Have you? I'm guessing you will ignore this question.
 
de3d1 said:
First thing Sony needs to do is outfit every gamespot and Best Buy with badass HDR 4K TV's with pros hook to it and plaster "seeing is beliving, ps4pro is for the players" all over it. Make it a spectacle. They need to play this smart.
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That makes sense, but I somehow see it more on display in conjunction with PSVR first and foremost. This will be needed for the "spectacle" (as you put it) required to sell the VR unit, which has a lot of R&D sunk into it. I think this will be priority with the Pro, but I can see both eventually. You are right though, probably, a lot of Best Buys will have both methods of Pro on display.
 
de3d1 said:
A "particular distance" is very vague explanation. You don't even know the exact specifications for the upscale as each pro ps4 game is different, look at what you just posted about Mass Effect, no one knows what they are using, yet you are simply blanket statement that all pro games are close enough. What? You can't prove that. You don't know unless you have seen these games on ps4 pro vs 4K PC. Have you? I'm guessing you will ignore this question.
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The old 'are you chicken' retaliation. LoL!

This is was actually stated out right by Sony. I believe it was Cerny that made the statement. I'll fetch that source from you when i find it again. Its obvious you are arguing for the sake of it now.


This one is from Guerilla:
"There’s a lot of magic sauce happening,” Guerrilla Games managing director Hermen Hulst said during a roundtable with reporters yesterday. “It’s not native 4K. But as you see for yourself, it’s perceptively so close that you wouldn’t be able to see the difference.”

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/235274-how-sonys-playstation-4-pro-does-4k-without-delivering-4k
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
The old 'are you chicken' retaliation. LoL!

This is was actually stated out right by Sony. I believe it was Cerny that made the statement. I'll fetch that source from you when i find it again. Its obvious you are arguing for the sake of it now.


This one is from Guerilla:
"There’s a lot of magic sauce happening,” Guerrilla Games managing director Hermen Hulst said during a roundtable with reporters yesterday. “It’s not native 4K. But as you see for yourself, it’s perceptively so close that you wouldn’t be able to see the difference.”

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/235274-how-sonys-playstation-4-pro-does-4k-without-delivering-4k
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So you haven't seen 4k PC games vs pro.
 
how does scorpios future depend on its price.. Funny how people keep saying that..do you really think they will sell it for 499 and up? Its still a year away, the hardware specs its using, the price will diminish as fast as when a new iphone drops. It'll be normal competing prices when its out. If it came out next month yeah it would be 499 possible 699 and up.
 
de3d1 said:
So you haven't seen 4k PC games vs pro.
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You should ask yourself that question, as it seems you are most certainly arguing a point that has already been confirmed. What you're standing on is you own ego at this point and its obviously due to insecurity purposes.
 
I merged the threads. Let's stop with the aggressive posts back and forth by both sides of the fence. Discuss like adults, not jaded gamers.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
You should ask yourself that question, as it seems you are most certainly arguing a point that has already been confirmed. What you're standing on is you own ego at this point and its obviously due to insecurity purposes.
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Come on now, lets keep this cool. My reason I know there is a difference between 4k and ps4pro is people that have seen both could see a difference without software tools. That's significant, not emotional or "ego". That doesn't even make sense to even imply that lol, the reverse however, to assume all sony's games(even though they achieve different ways of this 4k trickery) are all identical or close enough to native 4k just because sony says so, I can't even comment on that.
 
de3d1 said:
Come on now, lets keep this cool. My reason I know there is a difference between 4k and ps4pro is people that have seen both could see a difference without software tools. That's significant, not emotional or "ego". That doesn't even make sense to even imply that lol, the reverse however, to assume all sony's games(even though they achieve different ways of this 4k trickery) are all identical or close enough to native 4k just because sony says so, I can't even comment on that.
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Ok, but how close were these "people" to viewing distance? What imperfections were noticed?

No one is saying that this is true 4K, but at a particular distance can the human eye not detect such minute detail, and this is what Sony was basing that tech on, not to mention the audacity to label it as 4K when such artifacts clearly stick out like a sore thumb. As you can see from the example, the differences are practically identical to one another.

Perhaps due to it not being true 4K you were expecting a significant difference between the two, maybe? If so, then there lies the problem.
 
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Shawn Jelsic said:
Ok, but how close were these "people" to viewing distance? What imperfections were noticed?

No one is saying that this is true 4K, but at a particular distance can the human eye not detect such minute detail, and this is what Sony was basing that tech on, not to mention the audacity to label it as 4K when such artifacts clearly stick out like a sore thumb. As you can see from the example, the differences are practically identical to one another.

Perhaps due to it not being true 4K you were expecting a significant difference between the two, maybe? If so, then there lies the problem.
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What example? Are you viewing this on a 4k TV screen or a sub 4k computer screen? That's the issue with all these comparison to begin with.
 
TheGeneral said:


ouch
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Thank you General.

The anticipation here was killing me, btw. Setting through that video felt like hours, so you know I'm a bit energized. :grin: I have to admit some VERY good points were made, a lot of them having to do with what i have been saying all along about the power difference; it offers nothing for games since it is just the same game with a prettier picture -- more so due to the fact that these elite systems are limited by the weaker systems. So all the hype and excitement around the number of teraflops these systems will support is very pointless since all of that muscle will only be utilized on a prettier, faster picture. Having said that, this is Cerny's take on the PS4 Pro:



Moving on...

There is A LOT of hypocrisy being spewed here starting with the whole 4K nonsense. First of all, Sony never said a BluRay drive would ever be put in ANY of their PS4 systems. The only reason it is made out to be such a big deal is because Microsoft implemented one into the XB1 S and XB Scopio. What i find baffling about this nonsense is how prices are determined and justice placed upon these boxes. Sure, the vanilla PS4 nor does the slim support UHD BluRay. Hell, the Pro doesn't support the dang thing. But.....all of them supports VR and HDR.

Now, lets take a step back for a second and look at the other guys. The vanilla XB1 doesn't support UHD BluRay nor does it support HDR but the XB1 S supports the two, yet it still lacks 4K games and VR to which the Scorpio supports. So, what we have, in essence, are THREE different flavors of consoles, but here's where the hypocrisy comes in at. If 4K television sets are still new and I have a vanilla XB1, why should I care that the XB1 S has a UHD BluRay drive? Other than the look, what is the incentive to getting one: UHD or HDR? Taking a page from [I LUV PlayStation], what if i don't have a 4K screen? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the drive? If I have to invest in a 4K TV to put the UHD BluRay to use, why not invest in a PS4, vanilla or what have you, and get VR instead or in Pro's case, better VR and 4K games?

I bet your next comment is 'well VR isn't proven'. Well guess what, neither is that UHD BluRay player. The difference is I don't need an 4K TV to make use of it.

Now let's talk PS4 Pro. Sure, it doesn't have a UHD BluRay drive, but it does support 4K video, Netflix and YouTube are only a few of many. The fact that we are headed into the digital age really puts a lot of pressure on physical media. Sony themselves are moving into the 4K realm with a service called ULTRA. Right now it is in their TVs. What's stopping it from moving to their PS4 consoles and more specifically the PS4 Pro? Hell, what's stopping ANY of these guys from moving to the platform:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/where-and-how-to-watch-4k-uhd-content/

If this is true, then why is a huge inference being placed on the UHD drive when that very same experience can be had elsewhere? So in actuality, nothing offered by the other guys is really all that threatening -- especially 4K video if it is just so important to you. If you have a 4K set or even look forward to a better VR experience, then that clearly explains why a measly $100 extra would be worth the drop in the very same way you probably felt it was worth it when you tossed out the vanilla XB1 for the S when you discovered that it had a UHD drive. :really: Where is the confusion?

For some of you that may get a little sensitive about this, this doesn't imply that you should make a choice between the two competitors. I am merely showing you the hypocrisy revolving around the silly debate.

And Sony has an elite system on the market because just like any other piece of electronics, they are constantly evolving, thus consoles have to evolve with them to keep from being left behind. Why should they wait on the competition just because the competition reacted late? By Sony reacting NOW places them in a better position later on as it will give this system enough time on the market before the next generation PlayStation launches. Basically, they won't be cannibalizing one system over the other.
 
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de3d1 said:
What example? Are you viewing this on a 4k TV screen or a sub 4k computer screen? That's the issue with all these comparison to begin with.
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Not only was the screen run side by side in the video to a native comparison but this was stated out right by Sony, too.

Also, Sony has uploaded 4K footage to the web from some of the games at the meeting on YouTube. If you have a 4K TV, you might want to check them out.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
Not only was the screen run side by side in the video to a native comparison but this was stated out right by Sony, too.

Also, Sony has uploaded 4K footage to the web from some of the games at the meeting on YouTube. If you have a 4K TV, you might want to check them out.
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I'm buying a pro for VR. It's a done deal for me, but I don't expect it to be on par with native 4k. I was just curious how you knew that it's basically identical to native. Did you actually watch it on a 4k screen or just take Sony's word for it?
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
Not only was the screen run side by side in the video to a native comparison but this was stated out right by Sony, too.

Also, Sony has uploaded 4K footage to the web from some of the games at the meeting on YouTube. If you have a 4K TV, you might want to check them out.
Click to expand...
Still not as good as native 4K.

Youtube in 4K wouldn't do the Pro's showing justice.
We need uncompressed 4K footage.
 
de3d1 said:
I'm buying a pro for VR. It's a done deal for me, but I don't expect it to be on par with native 4k. I was just curious how you knew that it's basically identical to native. Did you actually watch it on a 4k screen or just take Sony's word for it?
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Short answer: yes. ;)
 
I think that's why the jump is difficult for many. Many of us still have 1080p TVs, and even if we do have a 4K TV, does it have HDR, does it have a low input latency with HDR turned on? Most people would need a new TV to fully take advantage of a pro. So you have to speed $600+ and the price of pro. That's a decent PC. Some like me will be ok with PSVR and whatever sony gives us at 1080p, but I haven't seen many.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
Thank you General.

The anticipation here was killing me, btw. Setting through that video felt like hours, so you know I'm a bit energized. :grin: I have to admit some VERY good points were made, a lot of them having to do with what i have been saying all along about the power difference; it offers nothing for games since it is just the same game with a prettier picture -- more so due to the fact that these elite systems are limited by the weaker systems. So all the hype and excitement around the number of teraflops these systems will support is very pointless since all of that muscle will only be utilized on a prettier, faster picture. Having said that, this is Cerny's take on the PS4 Pro:



Moving on...

There is A LOT of hypocrisy being spewed here starting with the whole 4K nonsense. First of all, Sony never said a BluRay drive would ever be put in ANY of their PS4 systems. The only reason it is made out to be such a big deal is because Microsoft implemented one into the XB1 S and XB Scopio. What i find baffling about this nonsense is how prices are determined and justice placed upon these boxes. Sure, the vanilla PS4 nor does the slim support UHD BluRay. Hell, the Pro doesn't support the dang thing. But.....all of them supports VR and HDR.

Now, lets take a step back for a second and look at the other guys. The vanilla XB1 doesn't support UHD BluRay nor does it support HDR but the XB1 S supports the two, yet it still lacks 4K games and VR to which the Scorpio supports. So, what we have, in essence, are THREE different flavors of consoles, but here's where the hypocrisy comes in at. If 4K television sets are still new and I have a vanilla XB1, why should I care that the XB1 S has a UHD BluRay drive? Other than the look, what is the incentive to getting one: UHD or HDR? Taking a page from [I LUV PlayStation], what if i don't have a 4K screen? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the drive? If I have to invest in a 4K TV to put the UHD BluRay to use, why not invest in a PS4, vanilla or what have you, and get VR instead or in Pro's case, better VR and 4K games?

I bet your next comment is 'well VR isn't proven'. Well guess what, neither is that UHD BluRay player. The difference is I don't need an 4K TV to make use of it.

Now let's talk PS4 Pro. Sure, it doesn't have a UHD BluRay drive, but it does support 4K video, Netflix and YouTube are only a few of many. The fact that we are headed into the digital age really puts a lot of pressure on physical media. Sony themselves are moving into the 4K realm with a service called ULTRA. Right now it is in their TVs. What's stopping it from moving to their PS4 consoles and more specifically the PS4 Pro? Hell, what's stopping ANY of these guys from moving to the platform:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/where-and-how-to-watch-4k-uhd-content/

If this is true, then why is a huge inference being placed on the UHD drive when that very same experience can be had elsewhere? So in actuality, nothing offered by the other guys is really all that threatening -- especially 4K video if it is just so important to you. If you have a 4K set or even look forward to a better VR experience, then that clearly explains why a measly $100 extra would be worth the drop in the very same way you probably felt it was worth it when you tossed out the vanilla XB1 for the S when you discovered that it had a UHD drive. :really: Where is the confusion?

For some of you that may get a little sensitive about this, this doesn't imply that you should make a choice between the two competitors. I am merely showing you the hypocrisy revolving around the silly debate.

And Sony has an elite system on the market because just like any other piece of electronics, they are constantly evolving, thus consoles have to evolve with them to keep from being left behind. Why should they wait on the competition just because the competition reacted late? By Sony reacting NOW places them in a better position later on as it will give this system enough time on the market before the next generation PlayStation launches. Basically, they won't be cannibalizing one system over the other.
Click to expand...


You're really not getting it. 4K streaming DOES NOT compare to UHD Blu Ray. Just like Netflix 1080p doesn't compare to Blu Ray. Just because it says 4K or 1080p, it is not all created equally, that's not to mention the audio experience in which I know for a fact that Netflix doesn't offer True HD, DTS-HD let alone the next gen formats like Atmos and DTS:X.

I'm sorry but you really have 0 idea about what you're talking about.
 
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