The 2018/2019 NBA Season Thread...
- Thread starter The Sunset Limited
- Start date
Go look at LeBron when he formed a super team. He still lost in the Finals. MJ would have never lost on that Heat team. He never lost in the Finals. Because he’s the GOAT.
MJ wasn't good enough to take his team to the Finals.
LeBron might lose in the Finals, but he has the ability to take scrub teammates there. MJ didn't.
MJ was 1 - 9 before Scottie Pippen showed up. Go look at LeBron's playoff record before he played with a talent like Pippen.
Even more impressive is that LeBron did it coming out of high school. Jordan needed 3 years of seasoning in college.
It's not even a debate really.
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I don't really think Lebron deserves any criticism for getting swept. Doesn't really deserve credit for getting there either. They wouldn't have sniffed the finals if they were in the West.
Championships don't matter when evaluating a players talent in High School. Championships don't matter when evaluating a players talent in College. News flash, championships don't matter when evaluating a players talent in the Pro ranks.
The PPG stat is the stat of children. LeBron was an unquestionably more efficient scorer.
MVP awards are given out by broadcasters and sports writers. They gave Karl Malone the award in 1997 and 1999. They gave Derrick Rose the award in 2011. They gave Steve Nash the award in 2005 and 2006. These same people kept Barry Bonds out of the HoF and made Terrell Owens wait 3 years to be inducted in the NFLs HoF. They are petty people influenced by things other than talent.
Guess who votes for DPotY as well?
LeBron is a better player in just about every analytical category. He simply played on worse teams than Jordan did. Much worse teams.
But if championships do matter, then Jordan never beat a 73 win team, down 3-1 with a team of scrubs in his life. LeBron did.
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The only stats that count are the ones I like!
I do like how playing with the two other hall of famers is considering playing with scrubs. If you are going to go all in on this schtick you got to at least put a little more effort into it.
I do like how playing with the two other hall of famers is considering playing with scrubs. If you are going to go all in on this schtick you got to at least put a little more effort into it.
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The only statistics that matter are statistics generated by the individual. Team statistics are just that, team statistics.
If you look at Cleveland Cavalier Kevin Love, you'll find a player who is atrocious on defense and averages 18 pts, 10 rebs. That Kevin Love doesn't make it into the HoF.
Kyrie was great but he has always been a poor defender and who's ball dominant. Not exactly the Pippen next to LeBron's Jordan.
Trae Young
Marcus Keene
James Daniel III
Tyler Harvey
Doug McDermott
Eric Green
Reggie Hamilton
Jimmer Freddett
Aubrey Colman
Recognize those names? Those are the last 10 college basketball scoring leaders by year. Imagine being an NBA scout and saying...
"We should take this guy."
"Why?
"Look at how many points he scored!"
Not very sophisticated is it?
Marcus Keene
James Daniel III
Tyler Harvey
Doug McDermott
Eric Green
Reggie Hamilton
Jimmer Freddett
Aubrey Colman
Recognize those names? Those are the last 10 college basketball scoring leaders by year. Imagine being an NBA scout and saying...
"We should take this guy."
"Why?
"Look at how many points he scored!"
Not very sophisticated is it?
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Framing your argument this way disregards context totally. Don't disregard context.
We could do this to the end of time. You bring up LeBron losing to the Mavs in the Finals. I bring up Jordan losing to the Magic in the 2nd round.
What we need to be shifting this discussion to is why rational arguments are so ineffective at getting people to change their minds.
Climate change, religion, politics, relationships etc...If people don't want to change their minds, data isn't going to convince them otherwise.
What we need to be shifting this discussion to is why rational arguments are so ineffective at getting people to change their minds.
Climate change, religion, politics, relationships etc...If people don't want to change their minds, data isn't going to convince them otherwise.
Why are you even talking about college and high school and then preaching about context?
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You mean the series where Jordan averaged over 30? According to you that is all that matters.
Plus you know why I brought it up. Its not about them losing. Its about him being terrible.
Lebron didn't need to be great for them to win that series. He just needed to show up in the 4th quarter.
Because it proves that talent evaluators don't judge talent based on a shallow statistic like PPG or team success.
No, I'm not a big PPG guy. It's not a very informative statistic.
And once again, you're right. That was the low point in LeBron's legacy. But Jordan quit on his team for one full season which many would consider worse. You could make a legitimate case that LeBron would have won 8 or 9 titles in Chicago with that supporting cast because LeBron wouldn't retire, he would've beaten the Magic, and 34/35 year old LeBron will most likely be significantly better than Jordan at the same age.
LeBron knows who the real GOAT is that’s all that matters. He is still chasing MJ’s ghost.
I do think it’s funny Sunset disregards the stats or points in their careers that do not help his own argument.
I do think it’s funny Sunset disregards the stats or points in their careers that do not help his own argument.
Such as?
No offense but I think I've pretty handedly taken this debate. One can argue for Jordan. No one here has done it in a compelling way, in my opinion.
Are Trump supporters typically data driven?
"Frankly, at this point it's a bit of a big margin actually."
"Frankly, at this point it's a bit of a big margin actually."
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lol, there was no actual data referenced and the panel was split in your video
Daryl Morey is one of the Godfathers of basketball analytics, a data driven movement that has revolutionized how teams value players.
The other guys on the panel are irrelevant because ESPN is garbage.
I love how the 2nd panelist says "I grew up watching Jordan. I think he's the best. You're never going to change my mind on that."
If you're stance on any issue is "I'll never change my mind", you're an idiot. Change you're mind when the information is compelling enough.
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