Xbox One X

[TeKPhaN]

It just comes down to how you want to define "true" 4K.

I think it's fine to call it that because X was designed to run Microsoft's first party games in 4k. And it looks, at least so far, like that will be the case.

Third party efforts have always been left to those developers design choices. I think Microsoft has been very clear about that.

True is 4K across the board no compromises.
We get closer than ever with X but not across the board 4K.
If it was possible in all cases then it would happen.
Its not enough for some that the X will be the most powerful console...we have to make believe its even more powerful than it is.
If we don't we are trolling,rinse and repeat.

 

[TeGu]

True is 4K across the board no compromises.
We get closer than ever with X but not across the board 4K.
If it was possible in all cases then it would happen.
Its not enough for some that the X will be the most powerful console...we have to make believe its even more powerful than it is.
If we don't we are trolling,rinse and repeat.

Lord have mercy...I guess it ain't gonna end.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Yeah I have repeated it enough.
No need to anymore in this thread.
Will wait for the release and the microscopes to come out.

 

[Dno69]

True is 4K across the board no compromises.
We get closer than ever with X but not across the board 4K.
If it was possible in all cases then it would happen.
Its not enough for some that the X will be the most powerful console...we have to make believe its even more powerful than it is.
If we don't we are trolling,rinse and repeat.

That's your definition. And I can see your logic. But if someone wants to call it true 4k based on first party stuff, then I can agree with that as well.

I do agree with JinCA that MS probably should have avoided the "no compromises" talk, there are always limits, but they always maintained that developers could design how they want.

 

[TeGu]

That's your definition. And I can see your logic. But if someone wants to call it true 4k based on first party stuff, then I can agree with that as well.

I do agree with JinCA that MS probably should have avoided the "no compromises" talk, there are always limits, but they always maintained that developers could design how they want.

It doesn't matter what MS says...the hate is real.

*shrugs

 

[Mcmasters]

That's your definition. And I can see your logic. But if someone wants to call it true 4k based on first party stuff, then I can agree with that as well.

I do agree with JinCA that MS probably should have avoided the "no compromises" talk, there are always limits, but they always maintained that developers could design how they want.

Honestly, they really shouldn't have diluted their message. Not at all. There were in depth reviews of the hardware, by DF no less. An organization well known for their critical analysis on console hardware. Essentially the best in the business. Microsoft went through thousands of game engine code to ensure bottlenecks were avoided. We've heard ad nauseum how quickly devs have been able to get their games up and running with 4K native resolution. Respawn spoke on Titanfall 2 hitting 6K native resolution. 6K!! Turn 10 has Forza 7 hitting 4K/60 in mere minutes with ultra settings and some 35% overhead left over - not even using all of the gpu power. Gears 4 will be 4K. Every game will look and perform better out of the box with NO OPTIMIZATION. Not to mention the games that'll receive an enhanced X1 face lift - that's including BC games. The games shown for X1 are the best looking games yet to be seen on consoles, and they were shown on X1. Best looking games EVER. More and more devs are confirming the X1 is a beast. The console is so powerful, Nintendo may miss out on an upcoming release because the developers game was up and running so quickly on X1.

Seriously?!? How much more proof do you need?! Fuk me running... Cot damn! lol. Fuk!

 

[TeGu]

Honestly, they really shouldn't have diluted their message. Not at all. There were in depth reviews of the hardware, by DF no less. An organization well known for their critical analysis on console hardware. Essentially the best in the business. Microsoft went through thousands of game engine code to ensure bottlenecks were avoided. We've heard ad nauseum how quickly devs have been able to get their games up and running with 4K native resolution. Respawn spoke on Titanfall 2 hitting 6K native resolution. 6K!! Turn 10 has Forza 7 hitting 4K/60 in mere minutes with ultra settings and some 35% overhead left over - not even using all of the gpu power. Gears 4 will be 4K. Every game will look and perform better out of the box with NO OPTIMIZATION. That's including BC games. Seriously?!? How much more proof do you need?! Fuk me running... Cot damn! lol. Fuk!

It is what it is. I'm just gonna enjoy my Xbox One X when it arrives. I'm excited about it, but I'm grown and I don't expect everyone to feel the same as me. I just thought there's enough back n fourth in threads already provided, I was hoping it would cease here. I feel you on it McMasters, but the rhetoric ain't gonna change and the narrative and weird reversal of info is only going to shadow any success MS has with XboX. Cheer up friend, 11/7 is in close proximity and we'll be marveling over the experience. No doubt☺

 

[Mcmasters]

It is what it is. I'm just gonna enjoy my Xbox One X when it arrives. I'm excited about it, but I'm grown and I don't expect everyone to feel the same as me. I just thought there's enough back n fourth in threads already provided, I was hoping it would cease here. I feel you on it McMasters, but the rhetoric ain't gonna change and the narrative and weird reversal of info is only going to shadow any success MS has with XboX. Cheer up friend, 11/7 is in close proximity, we'll be marveling over the experience. No doubt☺

Believe me, bruh. I'm going to enjoy my X1 - no doubt. But I can't shake this vision in my head of the hear, see and speak no evil monkeys, you know the ones? That's how some of these muffugahs look to me. s*** is crazy.. lol

I legit don't expect everyone to see what I see or like what I like. It's my genuine belief that people should be themselves in order to be happy. I respect others opinions, even if I don't agree with it. But to deny legitimate facts? My OCD kicks in..

 

[Larry]

True is 4K across the board no compromises.
We get closer than ever with X but not across the board 4K.
If it was possible in all cases then it would happen.
Its not enough for some that the X will be the most powerful console...we have to make believe its even more powerful than it is.
If we don't we are trolling,rinse and repeat.

That would be my definition of it as well. It being referred to as a true 4K machine should mean 2160p resolution as the requirement on all games. It shouldn't matter if it can do it, it should be the standard resolution going forward.

 

[TeGu]

Believe me, bruh. I'm going to enjoy my X1 - no doubt. But I can't shake this vision in my head of the hear, see and speak no evil monkeys, you know the ones? That's how some of these muffugahs look to me. s*** is crazy.. lol

Lol, indeed it is man. But, you should laugh at comedy, not be frustrated by it, feel me?

*I'm going to follow my own advice

 

[Mcmasters]

Lol, indeed it is man. But, you should laugh at comedy, not be frustrated by it, feel me?

*I'm going to follow my own advice

Fuk that s***. lol.

 

[JinCA]

It just comes down to how you want to define "true" 4K.

I think it's fine to call it that because X was designed to run Microsoft's first party games in 4k. And it looks, at least so far, like that will be the case.

Third party efforts have always been left to those developers design choices. I think Microsoft has been very clear about that.

In interviews yes they have been clear, in marketing materials which is what most buyers will see it's "4K no compromises" and "the only true 4K console" and neither one is true. There are compromises in most of the games announced for the console so far either by CB or variable resolution and sometimes both and also there is another console with native 4K games. I have said all along they'd get more bang for the buck going the CB route anyway and doing native 4K for a lot of the higher end current gen games would either be impossible or it would take every last bit of power the console has just for a resolution increase. I'm glad most devs seem to be choosing the CB route, it's a better use of the extra power and it will allow for other improvements that will mean more to the overall fidelity of the game than just a strict resolution increase.

The victim complex that some of these people have is sad, first it was "oh it's going to have a Ryzen" that didn't turn out to be true, then it basically became "well the jaguar is just as good because of optimizations" and that's not true, then there were the people who kept insisting "native 4K, ultra settings at 60 fps" again not true. Many of those same people kept insisting games Sony had the marketing rights to were going to show up at MS's E3 presentation. Now the victimhood is talking about Sony telling devs not to double framerates in games, they focus on Destiny while ignoring that none of MS 1st party games are doubling framerates either and neither are 99% of the 3rd party games announced so far. Now in addition to that we have "The power is there for all games to be native 4K but it's devs just making choices" yeah if they want the game to be native 4K they'll have to strip other things out that are in the base X1s games so you'll end up with a worse looking game but it'll be at a higher resolution.

That stuff is just childish and crazy, it's hard to have a real conversation about anything with people like that. They can't just enjoy the fact that we have the option to buy what will be the most powerful console in November, they'd rather stick their fingers in their ears and scream "lalala" instead of giving common sense and the truth a try. So what if it's not really a realistic native 4K for all games machine, it's still going to be the best console on a technical level ever produced when it's released, why can't that be good enough? why does it have to be made out to be something it's not to make them happy?

 

[pravus]

I don't really think there is any room for interpretation here. They were clear about their intentions about a year and a half before Xbox One X will ever reach a consumers hand. If you thought they meant something else it's because you held it to something they didn't say simply so you could call it out.

 

[Mcmasters]

I don't really think there is any room for interpretation here. They were clear about their intentions about a year and a half before Xbox One X will ever reach a consumers hand. If you thought they meant something else it's because you held it to something they didn't say simply so you could call it out.

Exactly. Fuking exactly. What's really happening is this "not a true 4K machine" Schtick is just a place holder until they see just how bad the damage is. Then we'll see where the goal posts move from there..

 

[TeKPhaN]

I don't really think there is any room for interpretation here. They were clear about their intentions about a year and a half before Xbox One X will ever reach a consumers hand. If you thought they meant something else it's because you held it to something they didn't say simply so you could call it out.

What are these clear intentions? Pls do fill me in.

 

[pravus]

What are these clear intentions? Pls do fill me in.

They said 4k for all 1st party games.

3rd party can do whatever they want with the power of console, no mandated resolutions or framerates.

Do you disagree?

 

[TeKPhaN]

They said 4k for all 1st party games.

3rd party can do whatever they want with the power of console, no mandated resolutions or framerates.

Do you disagree?

Yes they said this.

 

[pravus]

Thats all I'm saying. People seem to be caught up in marketing slogans, but a day or two after last years E3, they were on message with what to expect IMO.

 

[OneBadMutha]

The messaging was never confusing. 4K should not be mandated as it's not the best use of power in every game. The console is clearly capable of taking 900P games to 4K while maintaining framerate. The choice of how to use that power is up to developers. No controversy here. You guys are being damned fools and this debate has jumped the f'n shark.

 

[jimmyD]

The messaging was never confusing. 4K should not be mandated as it's not the best use of power in every game. The console is clearly capable of taking 900P games to 4K while maintaining framerate. The choice of how to use that power is up to developers. No controversy here. You guys are being damned fools and this debate has jumped the f'n shark.

But, but, but....

 

[de3d1]

I think Gears 4 is a good example of what the system can do, even better than Forza 7 in my opinion.

 

[Sasquatch Montana]

The PS4 is over 40% more powerful than the X1 yet Destiny ran at 30 fps and 1080p on both consoles, was Bungie holding something back then? nope, it's just the way their game runs. Just because the PC version can hit 60 fps doesn't mean that it will on all PC's, they'll likely have to have CPU's that are much better than the ones in either of these consoles to do that.

Yes. Destiny was a port of a PS360 game, many PS360 games on PS4/Xbone run at 60fps.

I think Gears 4 is a good example of what the system can do, even better than Forza 7 in my opinion.

As a general rule we can basically say all racers should be native 4k (and by which I mean have no excuse) because Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 3 (and Project Cars 2 and F1 201 are and by extension of the latter (and Shadow of War and Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves) so should open world games. Gears of War 4 covers 3rd person games, Halo Wars 2 covers RTS and MOBA games.

Sea of Thieves and Titanfall 2 cover first person games and i would expect CoD and Destiny to be native 4k. The outlier being Battlefront/Field.

ALL indie games too, but thats not clear cut as most indies may not have XOX DK's and simply just be building their games on other systems.

The only reasonable excuse for CB is if visuals are in vast excess of current generation games like Anthem...and even then thats 18 months away and will fluctuate

Overall there are many examples of native 4k XOX games in many different genres enough make the number of excuses for non-native very small.

 

[Frozpot]

Yes. Destiny was a port of a PS360 game, many PS360 games on PS4/Xbone run at 60fps.



As a general rule we can basically say all racers should be native 4k (and by which I mean have no excuse) because Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 3 (and Project Cars 2 and F1 201 are and by extension of the latter (and Shadow of War and Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves) so should open world games. Gears of War 4 covers 3rd person games, Halo Wars 2 covers RTS and MOBA games.

Sea of Thieves and Titanfall 2 cover first person games and i would expect CoD and Destiny to be native 4k. The outlier being Battlefront/Field.

ALL indie games too, but thats not clear cut as most indies may not have XOX DK's and simply just be building their games on other systems.

The only reasonable excuse for CB is if visuals are in vast excess of current generation games like Anthem...and even then thats 18 months away and will fluctuate

Overall there are many examples of native 4k XOX games in many different genres enough make the number of excuses for non-native very small.

NAh. If they can utilize Checkerboarding to give me Faux K with Better atmospherics, I'll take it. It's so rare to even get real 4k video outside of using a 4k Blue Ray. Even 4k digital feeds are still compressed. Checkerboarding (if done from a high enough baseline) will still look better than most of the 4k footage anyone sees. I want higher settings, damn it. The IQ will still be amazing.

Also, Forza 7 is highly optimized and definitely uses work arounds to achieve their framerates (IE baking lighting). If a racer wants full dynamic TOD/Weather, or more cars on screen, or more detailed physics, then they have a perfectly good "excuse" to not be native 4k. Especially @60fps.

Using SoW, Crackdown, and SoT as some "no excuse" bar of excellence makes no sense either, as those games can certainly look better as well. Crackdown and SoT are so stylized, they can get away with a lot on the graphics side.

No. There is always an "Excuse" to not be fully native. Especially if the costs don't outweigh the benefits. If you need a microscope to see the difference between native and FauxK then it's not worth the expenditure, imo. Each game and engine will be trying to do different things, and I'm more than fine with Devs using that power elsewhere. As I've said in the past- Once you are past 1080p, you are golden. Thankfully the 1X will have the higher res Textures and better filtering on these games regardless, and that can make a huge difference, even on a 1080p TV.

 

[Andy]

People seem to be caught up in marketing slogans, but a day or two after last years E3, they were on message with what to expect IMO.

Agree with this. Don't get caught up with arguing against marketing pitches. Marketing is supposed to make things sound as cool as possible (i.e, a bit better than they actually are). If you try to push back against every inaccuracy in marketing, you're headed down a bottomless hole. As long as Phil or some other spokesman has made clear statements, that's enough.

Naturally all games will not be 4K, across the board. Nor should they be. It would be foolish of MS to insist all games be 4K -- not to mention arrogant, because it's beyond their power to mandate. Nor would it be a good decision anyhow. As many have pointed out, that power can often better be used elsewhere.

 

[Registered User 1]

As a general rule we can basically say all racers should be native 4k (and by which I mean have no excuse) because Forza 7 and Forza Horizon 3 (and Project Cars 2 and F1 201 are

Pfft, yeah, but there's almost no turtle shells or power ups in those games.

 

[OneBadMutha]

I have been convinced checkerboarding is the right approach in many situations. If you're getting 4K assets with it, there doesn't appear to be much difference even on big screens at close viewing. Where I'm hoping that X gains is in the effects and lighting. HDR really shows off quality lighting. PC games sometimes get better particle effects and physics that only have visual impact. I want to see those on consoles more than using all that power to true 4K.

I'm concerned that this true 4K pissing contest is going to lead to a lot of developers checking the box rather than spending that power wisely. Faux 4K is still 4K if it's using 4K textures. It's not really fake 4K if it takes advantage of your 4K TV. That's like calling out developers for using texture mapping techniques instead of brute force pumping in more polygons to create a similar visual impact. Why waste the resources?

Unfortunately you have the system wars/list wars fanboys who've backed themselves in the corner on this because they were calling out the Pro for using checkerboarding. Microsoft's own white papers recommended developers use checkerboarding over true 4K because they could spend the resources elsewhere.

X is what Spencer has sold from the start. His team is doing the right thing by giving developers freedom. There's enough games that are going from 900P to 4K to prove the power exists. Going forward, we should hope that games aren't measured in true P's to determine visual quality. The Youtubers and system wars fanboys need to find something else to talk about.

 

[Frozpot]

Agree with this. Don't get caught up with arguing against marketing pitches. Marketing is supposed to make things sound as cool as possible (i.e, a bit better than they actually are). If you try to push back against every inaccuracy in marketing, you're headed down a bottomless hole. As long as Phil or some other spokesman has made clear statements, that's enough.

Naturally all games will not be 4K, across the board. Nor should they be. It would be foolish of MS to insist all games be 4K -- not to mention arrogant, because it's beyond their power to mandate. Nor would it be a good decision anyhow. As many have pointed out, that power can often better be used elsewhere.

Perfect post, imo.

I still think people only bring up some marketing crap because they want to poke holes or diminish. Marketing has been this way forever, and they all do it. What's important is if the company communicates the details (because marketing has to work in quick sound bytes and broad strokes anyway). We, as enthusiasts- and those who would give enough of a s*** about the exact resolution- have access to the specifics, and have been provided with them.

The more I think about it, it makes sense to market 4k because you have to have a 4k device for it to even matter. There is no 1440 checkerboard TV. Doesn't bother me when Sony does either, for this reason, though they are even further away from that target.

 

[Pureshooter]

Pfft, yeah, but there's almost no turtle shells or power ups in those games.

What do you mean "almost"? If you know where I can find a turtle shell or power-up please point me in the right direction.

 

[Sasquatch Montana]

NAh. If they can utilize Checkerboarding to give me Faux K with Better atmospherics, I'll take it. It's so rare to even get real 4k video outside of using a 4k Blue Ray. Even 4k digital feeds are still compressed. Checkerboarding (if done from a high enough baseline) will still look better than most of the 4k footage anyone sees. I want higher settings, damn it. The IQ will still be amazing.

Also, Forza 7 is highly optimized and definitely uses work arounds to achieve their framerates (IE baking lighting). If a racer wants full dynamic TOD/Weather, or more cars on screen, or more detailed physics, then they have a perfectly good "excuse" to not be native 4k. Especially @60fps.

Using SoW, Crackdown, and SoT as some "no excuse" bar of excellence makes no sense either, as those games can certainly look better as well. Crackdown and SoT are so stylized, they can get away with a lot on the graphics side.

No. There is always an "Excuse" to not be fully native. Especially if the costs don't outweigh the benefits. If you need a microscope to see the difference between native and FauxK then it's not worth the expenditure, imo. Each game and engine will be trying to do different things, and I'm more than fine with Devs using that power elsewhere. As I've said in the past- Once you are past 1080p, you are golden. Thankfully the 1X will have the higher res Textures and better filtering on these games regardless, and that can make a huge difference, even on a 1080p TV.

Forza 7 does have dynamic lighting and dynamic weather and has more cars on screen and is native 4k 60fps. At what point should that not be the minimum of expectations for a closed circuit racer on XoX?

When i say excuses i mean valid ones.

Legit excuse = We chose to render at 1080p/60fps on ultra high instead of 4k 30fps console settings.

I think thats fine ...but give gamers both options.

Lame excuse = Jaguar CPU means you can't make a 60fps first person shooter

Crackdown 3 works in appropriation of its peers. Agents of Mayhem has no valid reason not to be native 4k.

I think Assassins Creed Origins visually looks closer to Shadow of Mordor then Anthem so if they're using cb they need to show why.

 

[hrudey]

Haha, if I had a choice of who to get hammered with, it'd be you, @Zack, and @hrudy, lol. You guys always say funny s***. I'd include Bellybama in that list, but I'd need a bodyguard in case I passed out!

They are plenty of others I'd have beers and hang with here, though - that's why I love this forum!

I wouldn't include that hrudey guy - he's definitely sleeping with my wife, although very, very infrequently at least and I hear she's unsatisfied.