Inside Xbox: May 7th, 8:00 PST

Hedon said:
I don't think it matters what games MS releases. The big rumor right now is that The Initiative, which is a studio filled with unlimited AAA experience, is making Perfect Dark. That rumor hasn't been met with any sort of excitement from the usual crowd. This is THE Santa Monica Studio that should be the very first to impress out the door.
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Well not everyone wants the same thing and yeah people that never liked Xbox will be hard to win over but the people that once loved Xbox but have stopped because they had their worst gen for games? They should have a real opportunity to change opinions.
 
yankeessuck said:
Well not everyone wants the same thing and yeah people that never liked Xbox will be hard to win over but the people that once loved Xbox but have stopped because they had their worst gen for games? They should have a real opportunity to change opinions.
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I can't disagree with you there. Though I question how many gamers equate to "that once loved Xbox but have stopped". Maybe it's more than I picture.
 
Hedon said:
I can't disagree with you there. Though I question how many gamers equate to "that once loved Xbox but have stopped". Maybe it's more than I picture.
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Well a lot of people had 360s that didn't get X1s so certainly there are many who at least liked Xbox.

I spent 10 years mostly playing Xbox until they dropped the ball this gen in terms of games. Not all negativity is because people hate Xbox. Some of it is from people who are just greatly disappointed by what they delivered.
 
yankeessuck said:
Well a lot of people had 360s that didn't get X1s so certainly there are many who at least liked Xbox.

I spent 10 years mostly playing Xbox until they dropped the ball this gen in terms of games. Not all negativity is because people hate Xbox. Some of it is from people who are just greatly disappointed by what they delivered.
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I can see that.

But you know what has really let me down this generation? Not so much Sony or MS. Third party. Ubisoft first and foremost. Not to mention, Sports are a big fail.

What MS games appealed to you in the 360 era that haven't been satisfied in the One era?
 
yankeessuck said:
Well a lot of people had 360s that didn't get X1s so certainly there are many who at least liked Xbox.

I spent 10 years mostly playing Xbox until they dropped the ball this gen in terms of games. Not all negativity is because people hate Xbox. Some of it is from people who are just greatly disappointed by what they delivered.
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I think there have been some great games this gen on Xbox, but different opinions...

I get it though. I grew up on Nintendo and SEGA, and it was sad to see SEGA go the way it did, especially after making such a great system in the Dreamcast, but I just lost interest with Nintendo after the GameCube and couldn’t hold it anymore for them, which resulted in me moving onto Xbox.
 
Hedon said:
I agree. But if they are not ready and they show them, then Phil will get crucified. Phil has built up 15 teams and has said numerous times that the games won't be made overnight. If they are made overnight, they will lack content and polish and gamers will rage. If they take their time and spend 5 years making one game to make sure it meets our standards and has content, gamers will rage because Phil bought 15 teams and waited 5 years to give us the games we demanded.

The only games we are getting from the new studios right now are the ones that were already in development before MS aquired them.

I get it..if people don't like Xbox, don't like MS, don't like their games, don't like Phil....maybe move the f*** on? MS isn't forcing you to buy their product, and clearly they will never please the naysayers, EVER. Just like Inside Xbox. Nobody ever liked it, and nobody ever will like it, apparently. Didn't like the last 5 E3s? You won't like the next 5 either. Don't like Forza, Halo or Gears? Time for you to pack up. It's not changing. Want VR on your Xbox, too f***in' bad. It's not happening. MS moved on from TV TV TV to GAMES GAMES GAMES, but those GAMES GAMES GAMES don't meet your satisfaction? BYYYYYYEEEEE. You want Japanese games beyond what Phil has been giving us, including Day One Yakuza on Series X? Cya! Don't like non gameplay footage shown as gameplay footage? Sony and MS have been doing that for years. Don't like it? Sucks to be you.
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Does it ever occur tto you people that alot of this negativity stems from how we know MS can do sio much better. The OG xbox was awesome. Last gen was awesome. This gen a s*** show.

And yes, if it takes 2 entire generations to dfix a problem they knew about 2 years before last gen ended. Why wouldn't that generate negativity? It should. Why wouldn't people get bored of the same few titles over over? Are we not supposed to like variety anymore?

All you have said here is we just must accept any crap given, and shouldn't want to make it better.

TVTVTV, gamers commplained, then comes games games games.
All we get are Forza,, Halo, Gears. Gamers complain about lack of exclusives. MS eventually buys more studios.
X1 gets revealed. Gamers complain. Always online gone, mandatory kinect gone, aa more powerfrul X1 announced.

I nnotice a pattern there.

Like it or not critiicism and negativity change things. Sitting here praising everything and defending everything they do wrrong doesn't do anything.
 
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menace-uk- said:
So let me guess, that means i can't crticize or voice an opinion on anything gaming related ever? Even when the crticism or opnion has nothing to do with actual game development.

I hope that isn't your pointt. That would be as dumb as Zcyth's point about not liking games and being self absorbed cause we want to see the actual game.
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The point keeps eluding you. I'm simply stating they can only do the best they can before they release what they've been working on. They have NO IDEA how the audience will receive what they've been working on until its released. They didn't just release something probably knowing gamers would bash the living hell out of it. They worked extremely hard to produce the show with content they thought gamers would enjoy. Even foolishly hoped would enjoy and create hype for their product.

You can critique, sure. No one is saying you can't. I'm just saying that its stupid to assume they knew for certain how gamers would react before they released the show. They didn't. At all.

Fuking gamers think because they play video games it makes them experts on marketing and game development. No. It doesn't. It makes you a critic. That's it.
 
Hedon said:
I can see that.

But you know what has really let me down this generation? Not so much Sony or MS. Third party. Ubisoft first and foremost. Not to mention, Sports are a big fail.

What MS games appealed to you in the 360 era that haven't been satisfied in the One era?
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Halo was much better
Gears of War was better
Lost Odyssey
Alan Wake
Kameo
Shadowrun
Fable

The list goes on. They had a quality and quantity problem. The series and studios that didn't go away just got worse with maybe the lone exception of Forza Horizon.
 
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Zcythe said:
Wanting to see games and gameplay is completely fine. Calling the creators morons and deceptive and generally implying motive contrary to their own best interests, even after they’ve taken the feedback on the chin and apologized about messaging is self-aborbed. It leads not only to tunnel vision, but a distorted perspective.
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For starters. I said they are morons based on a scenario another poster presented. So, get that straiight.

How can you call an entire generation of hyped up screw ups not intentiolnal? Year after year of E3 promises that result in the same end, with the same issues? At some point you have to question the validity of these "mistakes." How does that saying go...there is no such thing as bad press?

Little tolerance for the possibility that others may have enjoyed what they saw and look forward for more to come is also self-absorbed. This further evidenced by those who prolifically use the term fanboy when an opinion is expressed outside their tunnel vision, further contributing to an elitist sense of self-absorption.
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Show me, where in this thread did I tell somebody they couldn't or shouldn't like anything from the show? Nowhere. But this cuts both ways, which means you are just being a hypocritical self absorbed person. I used fanboy, you used self absorbed.

It is a connected world these days, but it doesn’t excuse entitlement and discourtesy because something doesn’t follow your expectations. It is probably lost on those who struggle with it, but it is much more enjoyable and less spiteful to just relax and have fun with it, even if there are some missteps.
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Expectations driven by the marketing of the very people putting on a show, you mean? That isn't entitlement. So I should be fine being deceived by big corporations. Lol.

I hope you are young and just don’t remember what it was like to wait on magazines for all your scraps of information. Man I couldn’t gobble up those things fast enough. Gratitude and a sense of childlike awe are so much more fulfilling. I see posts from some people and they are so self-absorbed and jaded. I think to myself that I hope I never get that way.
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You mean the days where the info given was correct. Reviews were unbiased and helpful. Games were finished on release. Content wasn't ripped out to sell as MT extras. No, don't remejber that at all.
 
menace-uk- said:
Does it ever occur tto you people that alot of this negativity stems from how we know MS can do sio much better. The OG xbox was awesome. Last gen was awesome. This gen a s*** show.

And yes, if it takes 2 entire generations to dfix a problem they knew about 2 years before last gen ended. Why wouldn't that generate negativity? It should. Why wouldn't people get bored of the same few titles over over? Are we not supposed to like variety anymore?

All you have said here is we just must accept any crap given, and shouldn't want to make it better.

Like it or not critiicism and negativity change things. Sitting here praising everything and defending everything they do wrrong doesn't do anything.
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This isn’t entirely true either. For one, they don’t necessarily directly correlate as they don’t happen in a vacuum. There can be just as many internal factors as external factors that contribute to the process of making these kind of changes. Externally, people tend to add much more weight to their influence due to not having direct insight to everything else happening internally.

Yes, constructive criticism can be hugely beneficial to any creative process. However, it usually only succeeds in being beneficial when it both makes practical sense, and the other party is open to it and willing to use it constructively. It’s extremely unlikely to be successful when there is intent to deceive others in the first place.
 
Mcmasters said:
The point keeps eluding you. I'm simply stating they can only do the best they can before they release what they've been working on. They have NO IDEA how the audience will receive what they've been working on until its released. They didn't just release something probably knowing gamers would bash the living hell out of it. They worked extremely hard to produce the show with content they thought gamers would enjoy. Even foolishly hoped would enjoy and create hype for their product.

You can critique, sure. No one is saying you can't. I'm just saying that its stupid to assume they knew for certain how gamers would react before they released the show. They didn't. At all.

Fuking gamers think because they play video games it makes them experts on marketing and game development. No. It doesn't. It makes you a critic. That's it.
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first off. If you promise gameplay and don't deliver, we know exactly how that will be perceived.

Well What I do know, and is commomn sense, if you market something as one thing and then iit ends up being something different, you end up with alot of disgruntled consumers.
 
Zcythe said:
This isn’t entirely true either. For one, they don’t necessarily directly correlate as they don’t happen in a vacuum. There can be just as many internal factors as external factors that contribute to the process of making these kind of changes. Externally, people tend to add much more weight to their influence due to not having direct insight to everything else happening internally.

Yes, constructive criticism can be hugely beneficial to any creative process. However, it usually only succeeds in being beneficial when it both makes practical sense, and the other party is open to it and willing to use it constructively. It’s extremely unlikely to be successful when there is intent to deceive others in the first place.
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But it is an undeniable pattern.

Granted, not all will directly result in change and are more coincidental.
 
yankeessuck said:
Halo was much better
Gears of War was better
Lost Odyssey
Alan Wake
Kameo
Shadowrun
Fable

The list goes on. They had a quality and quantity problem. The series and studios that didn't go away just got worse with maybe the lone exception of Forza Horizon.
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I agree with Alan Wake. Alan Wake 2 is a huge missed opportunity. I don't think that will ever return now that Insomniac is with Sony. Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon were great, and Xbox dropped the ball huge with Japanese support.
 
menace-uk- said:
Does it ever occur tto you people that alot of this negativity stems from how we know MS can do sio much better. The OG xbox was awesome. Last gen was awesome. This gen a s*** show.

And yes, if it takes 2 entire generations to dfix a problem they knew about 2 years before last gen ended. Why wouldn't that generate negativity? It should. Why wouldn't people get bored of the same few titles over over? Are we not supposed to like variety anymore?

All you have said here is we just must accept any crap given, and shouldn't want to make it better.

TVTVTV, gamers commplained, then comes games games games.
All we get are Forza,, Halo, Gears. Gamers complain about lack of exclusives. MS eventually buys more studios.
X1 gets revealed. Gamers complain. Always online gone, mandatory kinect gone, aa more powerfrul X1 announced.

I nnotice a pattern there.

Like it or not critiicism and negativity change things. Sitting here praising everything and defending everything they do wrrong doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...
I have no issues with the "negative". I post things I don't like all the time. I have issues with those that don't like anything Xbox/MS keep thinking that Xbox/MS wiil be anything other than MS/Xbox. It will never be a PlayStation. PlayStation will never be a Nintendo. Nintendo will never be an Xbox. Those that don't like Xbox/MS should close that chapter. Those that once liked Xbox at a point and time and want to see Xbox improve and fix what they broke, I am on the same page.

Sony will show The Last of Us 2 at game shows all year long for 5 years, and Sony will throw in some flutes and completely skip E3, and The Last of Us will sell 15 million day one. Xbox doesn't have the brand recognition that PlayStation has. Xbox doesn't have the country penetration that Sony has. Xbox never had the quality of studios that PlayStation has had. Sony hasn't announced any first party games coming for the past couple years, but they will still sell 100 million PS5s. MS is and has been announcing new first party games and third party exclusives the past two years. My guess is that gamers will call them "game pass filler".

It's perception. Look at General Motors. They had a negative perception of quality all throughout the 80's, 90s, and early 2000s. The quality of their cars on now on par with the cars from Japan (that are known for quality). But the public still perceives GM as poor quality, even when it isn't. (BTW, I drive a 2019 Toyota 4Runner).

Xbox, IMO, will never shake the perception of being second fiddle to PlayStation. Maybe if we get a new generation of gamers 20 years from now when we are in our 50s and 60s.
 
menace-uk- said:
For starters. I said they are morons based on a scenario another poster presented. So, get that straiight.
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If that is what you want to hang onto.

How can you call an entire generation of hyped up screw ups not intentiolnal? Year after year of E3 promises that result in the same end, with the same issues? At some point you have to question the validity of these "mistakes." How does that saying go...there is no such thing as bad press?
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Clearly you are telling us there is such a thing as bad press. Didn’t realize you spoke for an entire generation of gamers and what they would consider screw ups or not screw ups. Careful, your imposing your own opinions again.

Show me, where in this thread did I tell somebody they couldn't or shouldn't like anything from the show? Nowhere. But this cuts both ways, which means you are just being a hypocritical self absorbed person. I used fanboy, you used self absorbed.
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An attempt at some modicum of cleverness here. Unfortunately, you didn’t comprehend what I wrote, as I didn’t state that you said such a thing. I stated “little tolerance” for the possibility. It is interesting how easily you connected to that statement and personalized it though.

Expectations driven by the marketing of the very people putting on a show, you mean? That isn't entitlement. So I should be fine being deceived by big corporations. Lol.
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Interestingly enough, MS’ statement said gameplay, trailers, and teasers. Seems to me that was accurate for the most part. Do you see deception wherever you go? Interesting.

Sometimes this thing happens when people work on a project that they become so close to it, that they have a hard time separating themselves from it to assess how others will receive it. In fact, developers mention this all the time. It’s not deception; they are just so close to their project it is hard to tell. This brings us back to the efficacy of constructive criticism.

You mean the days where the info given was correct. Reviews were unbiased and helpful. Games were finished on release. Content wasn't ripped out to sell as MT extras. No, don't remejber that at all.
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Again, to a point. You still had games reported that were canceled and never made it, or significant changes were made upon release. We also tend to remember things more nostalgically from childhood. There are benefits to both the old methods and the new.
 
Hedon said:
I have no issues with the "negative". I post things I don't like all the time. I have issues with those that don't like anything Xbox/MS keep thinking that Xbox/MS wiil be anything other than MS/Xbox. It will never be a PlayStation. PlayStation will never be a Nintendo. Nintendo will never be an Xbox. Those that don't like Xbox/MS should close that chapter. Those that once liked Xbox at a point and time and want to see Xbox improve and fix what they broke, I am on the same page.

Sony will show The Last of Us 2 at game shows all year long for 5 years, and Sony will throw in some flutes and completely skip E3, and The Last of Us will sell 15 million day one. Xbox doesn't have the brand recognition that PlayStation has. Xbox doesn't have the country penetration that Sony has. Xbox never had the quality of studios that PlayStation has had. Sony hasn't announced any first party games coming for the past couple years, but they will still sell 100 million PS5s. MS is and has been announcing new first party games and third party exclusives the past two years. My guess is that gamers will call them "game pass filler".

It's perception. Look at General Motors. They had a negative perception of quality all throughout the 80's, 90s, and early 2000s. The quality of their cars on now on par with the cars from Japan (that are known for quality). But the public still perceives GM as poor quality, even when it isn't. (BTW, I drive a 2019 Toyota 4Runner).

Xbox, IMO, will never shake the perception of being second fiddle to PlayStation. Maybe if we get a new generation of gamers 20 years from now when we are in our 50s and 60s.
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15 million day one. Lol. Sony wwould give the left nut of alll male employees to make that reality...but I get the point.

Teechnically, all Xbox exclusives are gamepass filller now.
 
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Hedon said:
I have no issues with the "negative". I post things I don't like all the time. I have issues with those that don't like anything Xbox/MS keep thinking that Xbox/MS wiil be anything other than MS/Xbox. It will never be a PlayStation. PlayStation will never be a Nintendo. Nintendo will never be an Xbox. Those that don't like Xbox/MS should close that chapter. Those that once liked Xbox at a point and time and want to see Xbox improve and fix what they broke, I am on the same page.

Sony will show The Last of Us 2 at game shows all year long for 5 years, and Sony will throw in some flutes and completely skip E3, and The Last of Us will sell 15 million day one. Xbox doesn't have the brand recognition that PlayStation has. Xbox doesn't have the country penetration that Sony has. Xbox never had the quality of studios that PlayStation has had. Sony hasn't announced any first party games coming for the past couple years, but they will still sell 100 million PS5s. MS is and has been announcing new first party games and third party exclusives the past two years. My guess is that gamers will call them "game pass filler".

It's perception. Look at General Motors. They had a negative perception of quality all throughout the 80's, 90s, and early 2000s. The quality of their cars on now on par with the cars from Japan (that are known for quality). But the public still perceives GM as poor quality, even when it isn't. (BTW, I drive a 2019 Toyota 4Runner).

Xbox, IMO, will never shake the perception of being second fiddle to PlayStation. Maybe if we get a new generation of gamers 20 years from now when we are in our 50s and 60s.
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I wouldn't have really felt like Sony had much of an advantage at the beginning of last gen.

We wouldn't have looked at Playstation as being a slam dunk for this gen either if we looked at it at the mid point of last gen. Xbox would have looked like the safer bet going forward but they dropped the ball and kept dropping it while Sony finished strong.
 
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yankeessuck said:
I wouldn't have really felt like Sony had much of an advantage at the beginning of last gen.

We wouldn't have looked at Playstation as being a slam dunk for this gen either if we looked at it at the mid point of last gen. Xbox would have looked like the safer bet going forward but they dropped the ball and kept dropping it while Sony finished strong.
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Xbox One had maybe the worst console launch of any major player in modern history. And the worst part is that it was all their fault.
 
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Pureshooter said:
Xbox One had maybe the worst console launch of any major player in modern history. And the worst part is that it was all their fault.
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Strategically, it made sense to show something to keep the momentum going, but leave the big hitters for closing arguments. Saying that this was going to be about gameplay and giving us almost nothing that resembles gameplay was a major tactical fail. With the series x, MS had been sharp up to this point with marketing, but this was basically taking something that should have been inconsequential and turning it into a detractor.
 
If this most recent inside Xbox had said:

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Trailers

instead of

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Play

Everything would be ok with the world?
 
I think some people are making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Would i have liked to see some gameplay? Yes. It's not the end of the world though. They did show trailers and alot of them did perk some interest in me. I look forward to seeing more from some of these games.

Now come July if they pull the same stunt then I would be pissed.
 
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Hedon said:
If this most recent inside Xbox had said:

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Trailers

instead of

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Play

Everything would be ok with the world?
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Actually their announcement said both. It said gameplay, trailers, and sneak peeks to be exact.
 
Zcythe said:
Actually their announcement said both. It said gameplay, trailers, and sneak peeks to be exact.
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I know, but everyone else is skipping past that like it didn't exist.
 
Mcmasters said:
Think boi! They didn't know the show would be viewed as harshly as it did.

One of my biggest pet peeves are people who have no idea what its like behind creative endeavors like movies and video games. You can put the best names in the business on a product and it can still fail just as much as it can succeed. But you don't know that until customers have it in their hands. Not for nothing Jinca, but you can say some silly s*** at times.

I still stand by what I said.

And there's no guarantee that people will embrace what Sony shows either. With all this silence, they build hype for their next showing. But can the content they show meet the hype? That's the question.

I said the same thing before Sony had their GDC lecture. They had no idea if people would embrace that ridiculously stale lecture, and still, Sony fans thought sure the hardware reveal would be banger. It wasn't. Not even close. Sony fans ran to the rescue with unprecedented damage control to try and save Cerny and the PS5 less than stellar specs. They still are...

There's no guarantees.
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How could they not know? they got heat for last years E3 having virtually no gameplay so they decide to do their first look at a next gen console the same way? it's a bit out of touch.

Sony isn't building hype they are keeping quiet until they choose to show something, they aren't out there tweeting "tomorrow changes the game" like MS' was about their showcase lol.

Sony's GDC speech was a mistake as well, it was meant for game devs but they decided to be more transparent and show the thing to everyone and most people didn't understand it (many still don't) which led to a lot of confusion and people spreading nonsense about what they were doing. Sorry but if you think the PS5 has less than stellar specs because it's got a slight TF disadvantage you need to cutback on whatever it is you are smoking. You've been hyping the stuff shown the other day like crazy, that's some serious damage control if I've ever heard it, it actually comes off a bit overdone and phony.

If Sony comes out and only shows stuff that looks just like the games at the MS show, if they tell people that it's going to be their first look at PS5 gameplay and that it'll change the game and then turn around and mostly show with only a few exceptions 2 minute trailers with MAYBE 10 seconds of gameplay worked in then they deserve every bit as much of a backlash as MS, actually even more so because they saw what people thought of MS's event so they've been warned.

None of this would be happening if coronavirus wasn't a thing so I cut them all slack for that, I doubt MS would have shown games this early if they still had a full E3 show to put on in June, I don't think Sony would have shared that video with the public if GDC had gone on as normal either, they are navigating this as best they can but they've made some mistakes, pretending it's everyone else that's wrong because you are loyal to a brand is silly. MS F'd up here and the know it and hopefully they don't do it again, Sony made a mistake with their spec reveal for the PS5 and it is what it is. Hopefully they both learn form these mistakes going forward.
 
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JinCA said:
If Sony comes out and only shows stuff that looks just like the games at the MS show, if they tell people that it's going to be their first look at PS5 gameplay and that it'll change the game and then turn around and mostly show with only a few exceptions 2 minute trailers with MAYBE 10 seconds of gameplay worked in then they deserve every bit as much of a backlash as MS, actually even more so because they saw what people thought of MS's event so they've been warned.
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Sony would never show 30 seconds of trailers for games coming out next year... They'd show 5 seconds of CGI and a title screen for something coming out in five years that already come out 20 years ago and win the Internet. 🤡
 
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hrudey said:
Strategically, it made sense to show something to keep the momentum going, but leave the big hitters for closing arguments. Saying that this was going to be about gameplay and giving us almost nothing that resembles gameplay was a major tactical fail. With the series x, MS had been sharp up to this point with marketing, but this was basically taking something that should have been inconsequential and turning it into a detractor.
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I'm not expecting a repeat performance here. The expectations set for last week were off, but aside from that it has been great. The original Xbox One was handicapped due to the Kinect; we already know the Series X is going to be very competitive with Sony from a hardware perspective.
 
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Hedon said:
If this most recent inside Xbox had said:

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Trailers

instead of

New 3rd party Xbox Series X Game Play

Everything would be ok with the world?
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Ok with the world, no. But atleast it wouldn't have raised expectations beyond what it could deliver.
 
yankeessuck said:
Halo was much better
Gears of War was better
Lost Odyssey
Alan Wake
Kameo
Shadowrun
Fable

The list goes on. They had a quality and quantity problem. The series and studios that didn't go away just got worse with maybe the lone exception of Forza Horizon.
Click to expand...
Shadowrun was fun. A bit light on content if I recall right. But fun.
 
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Zcythe said:
Actually their announcement said both. It said gameplay, trailers, and sneak peeks to be exact.
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No it didn't. Go look at page 1 post 7 . All it says is next gen gameplay from golbal partners. Then add on the other post about AC gameplay trailer. Then add in the other tweets from Spencer and co that only mention nex gen gameplay.

Nobody is skipping over anything.
 
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