There's no spin. Read what the devs stated. It will help you understand what I'm saying.
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There's no spin. Read what the devs stated. It will help you understand what I'm saying.
Sigh...I stay out of this because pixel measuring wars are boring but this isn't true and I may as well present facts and let you all decide how to deal with them. They have less features that matter. They will be magnified once we move to next gen game engines and tools.
I've mentioned it here before but one of my buddies is a contractor for AAA development. 2 decades. Has already worked with the Metahuman stuff in UE5 hands on. He's recently been getting demos on nanite and lumens. There's notable features in Series X not available in PS5 that weren't turned on at launch. Late this year or early next, you won't need Digital Foundry to see a difference (according to him). PS5 is still plenty capable and devs will cut corners where gamers see it least. Add on diminishing returns and I don't think it'll matter to 90%+ of gamers out there...but the hardware of Series X is absolutely more capable. It's not that PS5 just made different customization decisions. Microsoft waited longer.
It's just better to deal with facts and move on. Take it or leave it. The results will be coming soon enough.
Will be interesting to see if your predictions come true.
I think the fact of the matter is, noone outside of real developers and Cerny/Sony engineers know what is exactly in the PS5. Watch the Road to PS5 video from Cerny, I don't think anything's changed from what he said.
Yeah I'd pretty much agree. Not my prediction btw. That assessment belongs to a developer who is working on both systems.
Edit: to be clear, none of this is that important to me. Not performance differences I mean. I gamed on Xbox One S over PS Pro for multiplats before One X released because I liked the controller on Xbox better. Gamed on Xbox 360 when I assumed PS3 was more powerful. Just sharing what I think I know based on someone I consider a good source. NDAs have come down lately so I've received a less vague understanding.
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I know what you are saying. I knew what the devs said before you posted it.
Since I'm sure everyone here is more interested in how tech will make games better and not just who's going to win some DF head to heads, here's a little bit more:
He went hands on with Metahuman and said he was able to put together better looking models in a tiny fraction of the time it would normally take him. Combined with photogrammetry, nanite and lumens....UE5 allows crazy advances in visuals but makes them so efficient to implement, small teams can take advantage of them. He said the nanite stuff is nuts. He said what we saw with the UE5 demo on PS5 is not only realistic, it'll be exceeded in game once good devs get comfortable with the tools.
He's not a big believer in full streaming (it's not his area to be fair) but devs are doing things with hybrid streaming that will allow for crazy innovations. Talked about running complex AI for every character in an open world off of the cloud while your console processes everything else locally.
ML is exciting...but ML upscaling is one of the least exciting in his opinion. Much more interesting things with ML to be shared in the future.
Don't think I can say much else right now. Just be on the lookout for some exciting things from a tech standpoint soonish.
He went hands on with Metahuman and said he was able to put together better looking models in a tiny fraction of the time it would normally take him. Combined with photogrammetry, nanite and lumens....UE5 allows crazy advances in visuals but makes them so efficient to implement, small teams can take advantage of them. He said the nanite stuff is nuts. He said what we saw with the UE5 demo on PS5 is not only realistic, it'll be exceeded in game once good devs get comfortable with the tools.
He's not a big believer in full streaming (it's not his area to be fair) but devs are doing things with hybrid streaming that will allow for crazy innovations. Talked about running complex AI for every character in an open world off of the cloud while your console processes everything else locally.
ML is exciting...but ML upscaling is one of the least exciting in his opinion. Much more interesting things with ML to be shared in the future.
Don't think I can say much else right now. Just be on the lookout for some exciting things from a tech standpoint soonish.
We don't listen to DF remember
I've always valued their opinion. Don't know much about when it matters here though.
PS5 SoC Die Shots Reveal RDNA 1.1 GPU and Zen 2 CPU Cores w/ Cut-Down FP Units
The die-shot of Sony’s PS5 SoC has finally been analyzed by a third-party, revealing some unexpected details, while confirming the rest. For starters, it looks like the GPU on the console isn’t a full-fledged RDNA 2 design, and instead uses the RDNA 1.1 design which is basically the same as RDNA...
www.hardwaretimes.com
PS5 SoC Die Shots Reveal RDNA 1.1 GPU and Zen 2 CPU Cores w/ Cut-Down FP Units
The die-shot of Sony’s PS5 SoC has finally been analyzed by a third-party, revealing some unexpected details, while confirming the rest. For starters, it looks like the GPU on the console isn’t a full-fledged RDNA 2 design, and instead uses the RDNA 1.1 design which is basically the same as RDNA 2 with the exception of the ROPs.The lack of Infinity Cache on both the consoles is no surprise as that would have made both the consoles economically unfeasible. Other than the Render Backend, the arrangement of the Dual-Computer Unit (WGP) subarray is also similar to the older RDNA 1 design rather than RDNA 2. I’m guessing RDNA 1.1 was identical to vanilla RDNA in this respect.
Read more about RDNA 2 hereRead more here (RDNA 1)RDNA 2
The Zen 2 CPU cores on the PS5 are a bit surprising. It looks like the Floating Point Pipeline has been cut-down into 128-bit units rather than 256-bit which is the standard with both Zen 2 and Zen 3. Although this design should still support AVX256 and wider FP instructions, it will be a fair bit slower than the PC-grade Ryzen 3000 and 5000 CPUs. This appears to have been done to reduce power consumption, albeit at the cost of performance as many modern games utilize AVX2 code.
As you can see in the above image, the FP capabilities of the PS5 console are roughly on par with the older Zen core, rather than the Zen 2 architecture. It’s unclear whether the Xbox Series X features full-fledged Zen 2 cores or a custom design similar to the PS5.
Not surprising PS5 is basically closer to enhanced RDNA1 with some RDNA2 features sprinkled in than anything RDNA3 (whatever that is). It’s a smaller, less capable chip than the one in the XSX in the end. Basically what we knew all along until the Sony faithful started filling in the gaps as something more than it is.
What does that even mean exactly though? Would you consider Halo Collection as a natively ported game to the Xbox One.
In the end, the real power is in the tools and exclusive in house talent. Both PlayStation and Xbox have prioritization on improving and having the best tools. Both have top notch in house talent. Will be the best generation. Neither console is gimped. If you have the time and money, having both will be ideal. Everyone have fun!
I take it as meaning the devs can't just patch it, they would need to port the whole title over to have access to the PS5's full power. Unlike the Xbox, where they could just release a patch and the title is able to gain access to the Xbox's increased power because it is all software based.
I’ll have both ( at some point). Not everyone in this thread will though. To each his own. Not knocking anyone’s purchasing decisions.
So like the Halo remakes? I mean in terms of going from Xbox OG and 360 to Xbox One.
Any old Xbox title should in theory be able to access the new Xbox's full power with a patch from my understanding.
But the remakes were more than a res boost or FPS boost.
I‘m just trying to distinguish the term Natively ported from new coat of paint, next gen patch...etc.
I believe native porting, the developers would need to create a new code instead of using the existing one. The patches are using the same code from before and just updating on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So is Miles Morales different than the original Spider-Man game in that regard? Or are they both natively ported?
I believe new code was written for the remastered Spiderman and Miles. Don't think they can just patch it with raytracing features.
Yea insomniac has a pretty big and talented team, I'm sure they had a made a statement saying new code was written.
So they’re saying that one missing piece of chip is for puddles and another is for ray tracing and the last to handle the two in synergistic glory but they turned into a xzibit and said “you don’t need that, here’s an aquarium in place of your motor “
What looks like RDNA1 is really RDNA2? Interesting. My guess is what looks like RDNA1 is likely RDNA1.
The RDNA1 vs 2 and 3 talk is silly regardless. PS5 could still have a customization that is exclusive until RDNA3. That doesn't mean it's going to offset certain hardware accelerated things it doesn't have. The big features are mesh shaders, VRS 2.0 and hardware accelerated ML. That said, it comes down to APIs (tools). The One X was 40% or so more powerful than the PS4 Pro however if the average gamer was trying to determine which console was more powerful based on the average image on the screen while I was playing a PS4 Pro game vs the average image when playing the One X, they would've thought my PS4 Pro was a half generation more powerful than my One X. Developers and tools (APIs) is more important.
That said, this is also why I'm really excited about the tech on the Xbox side this gen. Microsoft is investing more in tools and R&D for game development than they ever have and it's not even close. They aren't leaving it up to 3rd parties to figure out like they did with the One X. Investment includes tools to make cross platform development between PC and console much more seamless. This matters when you factor devs already have things in the pipeline that will need to be scaled down on consoles. They're investing in innovations and advancements for AI, physics and animations. Multiple teams using modified versions of UE5 and integrating their own custom tech into it..
I was listening to the KOF podcast last week (who I like) but was surprised by their expectations for Xbox. They said there was "no chance" Microsoft studios will ever compete with Sony this generation when it comes to big budget games because....Game Pass. I think there's this thought that Crackdown 3, State of Decay 2 and the launch content of Sea of Thieves is going to be the norm for Xbox 1st party this gen because....well....Game Pass.
People are going to be really surprised. Keep an eye out for Ninja Theory to kick things off soon. Then keep in mind all these studios are sharing and directly or indirectly helping each other with tech.
That said, this is also why I'm really excited about the tech on the Xbox side this gen. Microsoft is investing more in tools and R&D for game development than they ever have and it's not even close. They aren't leaving it up to 3rd parties to figure out like they did with the One X. Investment includes tools to make cross platform development between PC and console much more seamless. This matters when you factor devs already have things in the pipeline that will need to be scaled down on consoles. They're investing in innovations and advancements for AI, physics and animations. Multiple teams using modified versions of UE5 and integrating their own custom tech into it..
I was listening to the KOF podcast last week (who I like) but was surprised by their expectations for Xbox. They said there was "no chance" Microsoft studios will ever compete with Sony this generation when it comes to big budget games because....Game Pass. I think there's this thought that Crackdown 3, State of Decay 2 and the launch content of Sea of Thieves is going to be the norm for Xbox 1st party this gen because....well....Game Pass.
People are going to be really surprised. Keep an eye out for Ninja Theory to kick things off soon. Then keep in mind all these studios are sharing and directly or indirectly helping each other with tech.
ML upscaling is the most boring.
Everything from ML AI to ML quests in RPGs are far more interesting and game impacting.
In regards to ML quests. I wonder if this could be expanded into a full 6 to 8 story. Couple that with something like procedural levels/worlds and you have a game you could theoretically play forever. Instead of new game+ being the same, it would be a whole new story in a whole new world, with a bunch of new abilities, weapons, armour,etc. To aquire , master, craft, level up.
Metro studio says Xbox Series S’s GPU ‘presents challenges’ for its future games | VGC
Performance level is an issue due to the nature of 4A Games’ renderer…
www.videogameschronicle.com
[VGC] Metro studio says Xbox Series S’s GPU ‘presents challenges’ for its future games
While 4A Games currently has “a compromise solution” to overcome the lower GPU performance of the Xbox Series S, chief technical officer Oleksandr Shyshkovtsov told Wccftech the GPU was problematic for its future games due to the nature of the studio’s existing renderer.
“The RAM is not an issue for us (currently), but GPU performance presents challenges for future titles,” he said. “Our current renderer is designed for high spatial and temporal resolution (read: 4K @ 60 fps). It is stochastic by nature.
“Dropping any of those would require us to do more expensive calculations dropping performance even further. We have a compromise solution right now, but I am not satisfied with it yet.”
In a November interview with Digital Foundry, Xbox system architect Andrew Goossen claimed that Xbox Series S would “advance the generation rather than hold it back.”
“Well, one thing is that it would last a long time through the generation and we felt that the new generation is defined by aspects such as the Xbox Velocity Architecture, and graphics features such as variable rate shading and ray tracing and the 4x processing performance boost on the CPU.
“And so we wanted to make sure that there was an entry level at the right price-point so that we could really advance the generation rather than hold it back,” Goossen continued. “I’ve heard that Series S is going to hold back the next generation but I actually see Series S advancing it because by doing Series S we’ll have more games written to the characteristics of the next generation.”
Sony has patents for their own version of VRS and mesh shaders. It was developed by Cerny and Naughty Dog last year. The only one I'm not sure they have is hardware accelerated ML.
I agree about the RDNA talk. Just seems like marketing terms. The results as shown in real world games has the PS5 doing just fine. RDNA 1, 2, 3 or not. Raytracing is there and High clock frequencies are there at 2.23ghz which would not be possible with RDNA 1. Lots of people focus on what they think the PS5 doesn't have vs what it does already.
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