Major Nelson speaks about Native 1080p 60fps...

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SevenDead1ySinz said:
https://twitter.com/RealtimeCevat/status/384355681194614784

Cevat Yerli‏@RealtimeCevat
#Ryse runs at 1600x900 for best perf&res,we apply our upscaler for AA, framebuffer native 1080p.SAME as E3 XboxOne! No change,No compromise!

So yah they use their own upscaler not the X1's hardware, but it is native 1080p in the frame buffer, dropped to 900 and then upscaled.
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so...like, it is, then isn't, then is..or..

oh sigh, I'm keeping out of tech talk from now on.
I guess in the grander scheme things will iron out. I'm just not gonna worry about it.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
LOL @ the dev must be lying. Anyone 'counting' isn't counting what's in the frame buffer.
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When you count the native resolution of the final image you get the resolution it was natively rendered at, hence if you have a 1080P BF4 image you'll get 720P/900P once counted, and the Ryse shots come out as 900P. meaning they where never 1080P. Believe what you want but the facts says the game isn't 1080P.
 
kb said:
When you count the native resolution of the final image you get the resolution it was natively rendered at, hence if you have a 1080P BF4 image you'll get 720P/900P once counted, and the Ryse shots come out as 900P. meaning they where never 1080P. Believe what you want but the facts says the game isn't 1080P.
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And how exactly are these forum people counting them? with the given images & gifs? Sorry but I'll take what the dev says over forum folk, especially when the dev has been honest thus far.The framebuffer isn't rendered, the starting image is 1080p native, it is then rendered at 900p and then upscaled to 1080p, no matter what people count they will never be able to count that originating image in the frame buffer.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
And how exactly are these forum people counting them? with the given images & gifs? Sorry but I'll take what the dev says over forum folk, especially when the dev has been honest thus far.
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The native shots that have been released?. They count it by looking at edges then viewing how many steps there relative to the resolution the image is displayed at. It says its 900P regardless of what the PR for the game says.
 
kb said:
The native shots that have been released?. They count it by looking at edges then viewing how many steps there relative to the resolution the image is displayed at. It says its 900P regardless of what the PR for the game says.
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Yes, because the GPU rendering is at 900p, doesn't mean the originating image in the framebuffer is. There is no way for anyone to count what's in the frame buffer. Compressing 1080p image into 900p would make it significantly more detailed than a 900p framebuffer image.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
Yes, because the GPU rendering is at 900p, doesn't mean the originating image in the framebuffer is. There is no way for anyone to count what's in the frame buffer. Compressing 1080p image into 900p would make it significantly more detailed than a 900p framebuffer image.
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Your speaking gibberish, and yes, counting what the GPU renders does tell you what resolution the games frame buffer is.

Read This.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ryse-runs-at-900p

Its 900P but still looks great.
 
1080 is a standard. 60 fps is a standard. There is no standard for what a game is supposed to look like, other than what the devs says. Every game could be 1080p/60fps, but individual frames would have less quality.

The trouble comes when in this day & age (the ass end of 2013), a game can't hit these two targets on new hardware. The issue is exacerbated when the competition can achieve the standard while your hardware falters. Talk all you want about your design, what matters at the end of the day is what it can effectively achieve. Oh, and the price.
 
kb said:
Thats exactly my point, they are making that assumption and its not a bad one.
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I understand the assumption, and the logic behind it..but nothing is pointing to Cevat lying about 1080p native in the framebuffer, other than an assumption by DF.

Either way it doesn't matter in the end, 900p upscaled in Ryse right now looks beautiful, at least to me. Crytek games usually always look beautiful, it's the gameplay that is iffy
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
I understand the assumption, and the logic behind it..but nothing is pointing to Cevat lying about 1080p native in the framebuffer, other than an assumption by DF.

Either way it doesn't matter in the end, 900p upscaled in Ryse right now looks beautiful, at least to me. Crytek games usually always look beautiful, it's the gameplay that is iffy
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We know its not 1080P, its been discussed to death on more technical forums. If you don't want to believe what DF is saying go ahead but your wrong.
 
kb said:
We know its not 1080P, its been discussed to death on more technical forums. If you don't want to believe what DF is saying go ahead but your wrong.
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LOL so the dev is wrong then?wow.. I think they happen to know more about their game than me , you,or DF. DF's is only assuming the framebuffer is 900p, they have no technical proof..hence the assumption..which is proven to be wrong by the dev saying the framebuffer is native 1080p.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
LOL so the dev is wrong then?wow.. I think they happen to know more about their game than me , you,or DF. DF's is only assuming the framebuffer is 900p, they have no technical proof..hence the assumption..which is proven to be wrong by the dev saying the framebuffer is native 1080p.
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The dev is saying the game is scaled to 1080P after its been rendered at 900P. This discussion is going nowhere though as you have demonstrated an ability to ignore what anyone else other then the dev says and, even when they say it is 900P as quoted in the DF article you don't believe. Its clear you don't want a discussion or to learn.
 
kb said:
The dev is saying the game is scaled to 1080P after its been rendered at 900P. This discussion is going nowhere though as you have demonstrated an ability to ignore what anyone else other then the dev says and, even when they say it is 900P as quoted in the DF article you don't believe. Its clear you don't want a discussion or to learn.
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What DF says falls in line with what the dev said, except the assumption about the framebuffer. 1080p native in the framebuffer, 900p rendered, upscaled to 1080p using their upscaler. Yet somehow what the dev says is wrong? that's a laugh,you are holding on to an assumption that is clearly wrong.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
What DF says falls in line with what the dev said, except the assumption about the framebuffer. 1080p native in the framebuffer, 900p rendered, upscaled to 1080p using their upscaler. Yet somehow what the dev says is wrong? that's a laugh,you are holding on to an assumption that is clearly wrong.
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You do realise the original reason for the decrease in resolution, from the developer himself was to increase the amount of effects that they could run. You're now trying to claim that they resolution has not been decreased at all, this runs contrary to what the developer themselves have said. The game renders at 900P then upscales it so that they can have more effects. This is obvious to anyone who has a semblance of knowledge about how 3d rendering works.
 
Cody32599 said:
actually...2 months ago he said he couldn't wait for the truth to come out.....well the truth has come out and smacked all xbox fans in the face......way to troll Major...good job.
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Both Alboat and the good Major Nelson both said they couldn't wait for the truth to come out...

...it has, and I assume they're glad it's come out now. :D

Can you imagine if Don Mattrick was still with MS? Him and his rat face. lol
 
kb said:
You do realise the original reason for the decrease in resolution, from the developer himself was to increase the amount of effects that they could run. You're now trying to claim that they resolution has not been decreased at all, this runs contrary to what the developer themselves have said. The game renders at 900P then upscales it so that they can have more effects. This is obvious to anyone who has a semblance of knowledge about how 3d rendering works.
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I am simply sharing what the devs have said themselves. They dropped the res to 900p by rendering the native 1080p framebuffer image as 900p, allowing more effects and then using their own upscaler for AA. They did this because it allowed them more effects without compromising the end IQ. 900p framebuffer rendered and upscaled is not the same as 1080p native framebuffer compressed and rendered at 900p and then upscaled back to 1080p. It's obvious from what they have said that 900p is a design choice not a hardware limitation; so they could have done 1080p native rendering.

Not sure why you are hellbent on the dev being wrong, pretty sure they know what they are doing, and have no reason to lie about it.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
I am simply sharing what the devs have said themselves. They dropped the res to 900p by rendering the native 1080p framebuffer image as 900p, allowing more effects and then using their own upscaler for AA. They did this because it allowed them more effects without compromising the end IQ. 900p framebuffer rendered and upscaled is not the same as 1080p native framebuffer compressed and rendered at 900p and then upscaled back to 1080p. It's obvious from what they have said that 900p is a design choice not a hardware limitation; so they could have done 1080p native rendering.
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Uhh, effects are generally the thing that is actually rendered at a resolution, shaders and what not. If you downscale before that your downscaling nothing. What you said makes no sense.
 
Ketto said:
You can say that about PS3/360...
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That's exactly what I was thinking when I first heard that.

What it ultimately means is that Microsoft has ABSOLUTELY NO PERFORMANCE METRIC for high definition gaming this generation. Basically developers can render the game at whatever resolution they want, the hardware was merely designed to upscale it.

I wished they had revealed that fact to gamers back in June instead of people learning about it now with what is bound to be a slew of 720p multiplatform games with UNLOCKED frame rates this generation.

It's time everyone recognized the truth, this isn't going to get better over time. There are no magic drivers that will improve this issue, it's going to be constant. Bottomline is that if you don't care about 720p being upscaled for your favorite multiplatformers you'll be okay. If resolution is important to you then you're going to be disappointed.

And this isn't likely to remain just an Xbox One issue either. As development turns the corner and graphics become more complex (as it always has), both the X1 and PS4 are going to come up wanting.

I predict a short shelf life for both machines this gen, especially the X1.
 
A7MAD said:
Both Alboat and the good Major Nelson both said they couldn't wait for the truth to come out...

...it has, and I assume they're glad it's come out now. :D

Can you imagine if Don Mattrick was still with MS? Him and his rat face. lol
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I don't understand what they where thinking...I
 
Tommygun. said:
so...like, it is, then isn't, then is..or..

oh sigh, I'm keeping out of tech talk from now on.
I guess in the grander scheme things will iron out. I'm just not gonna worry about it.
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Good man, the more people who come into your way of thinking the better. Because there's nothing that can be done about it at this point.
 
kb said:
Uhh, effects are generally the thing that is actually rendered at a resolution, shaders and what not. If you downscale before that your downscaling nothing. What you said makes no sense.
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Effects are dependent on the rendered image not the framebuffer image, rendering at 900p allows for more effects than 1080p given a limitation on hardware.

Cevat talked about why they did what they did after it came out, not sure why you consistently think what they say is wrong.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
I am simply sharing what the devs have said themselves. They dropped the res to 900p by rendering the native 1080p framebuffer image as 900p, allowing more effects and then using their own upscaler for AA. They did this because it allowed them more effects without compromising the end IQ. 900p framebuffer rendered and upscaled is not the same as 1080p native framebuffer compressed and rendered at 900p and then upscaled back to 1080p. It's obvious from what they have said that 900p is a design choice not a hardware limitation; so they could have done 1080p native rendering.

Not sure why you are hellbent on the dev being wrong, pretty sure they know what they are doing, and have no reason to lie about it.
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That doesn't make any sense, if you're rendering at 1080p but downscaling to 900p you're not gaining any performance because it's still being rendered at 1080p, they wouldn't gain any effects that they couldn't have at 1080p. It also wouldn't make any sense to rescale it up because then you just lost the AA you got from downsampling (which is the best kind of AA as it effects everything in the scene; while post processing AA only effects geometry edge). That and in order to downscale from 1080p to 900p, you're using the hardware scaler...only to turn around and scale it back up to 1080p?
 
Ketto said:
That doesn't make any sense, if you're rendering at 1080p but downscaling to 900p you're not gaining any performance because it's still being rendered at 1080p, they wouldn't gain any effects that they couldn't have at 1080p. It also wouldn't make any sense to rescale it up because then you just lost the AA you got from downsampling (which is the best kind of AA as it effects everything in the scene; while post processing AA only effects geometry edge). That and in order to downscale from 1080p to 900p, you're using the hardware scaler...only to turn around and scale it back up to 1080p?
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framebuffer image isn't rendered though afaik, it's the image that is sent to be rendered.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
framebuffer image isn't rendered though afaik, it's the image that is sent to be rendered.
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What the frame buffer is the image that is currently being worked. Its the buffer for the frames information. The game is never at 1080P till its displayed on the TV.
 
kb said:
What the frame buffer is the image that is currently being worked. Its the buffer for the frames information. The game is never at 1080P till its displayed on the TV.
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Not according to the dev. If you have a problem with what he said take it up with him.
 
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