Official Thread PlayStation Hardware
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Here's the part of the article from the eurogamer write up about the PS5.
www.eurogamer.net
Introducing boost for PlayStation 5
It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs. There, peak performance is tied directly to thermal headroom, so in higher temperature environments, gaming frame-rates can be lower - sometimes a lot lower. This is entirely at odds with expectations from a console, where we expect all machines to deliver the exact same performance. To be abundantly clear from the outset, PlayStation 5 is not boosting clocks in this way. According to Sony, all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be.
So how does boost work in this case? Put simply, the PlayStation 5 is given a set power budget tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. "It's a completely different paradigm," says Cerny. "Rather than running at constant frequency and letting the power vary based on the workload, we run at essentially constant power and let the frequency vary based on the workload."
An internal monitor analyses workloads on both CPU and GPU and adjusts frequencies to match. While it's true that every piece of silicon has slightly different temperature and power characteristics, the monitor bases its determinations on the behaviour of what Cerny calls a 'model SoC' (system on chip) - a standard reference point for every PlayStation 5 that will be produced.
"Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."
It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance. However, for Sony this means that PlayStation 5 can hit GPU frequencies way, way higher than we expected. Those clocks are also significantly higher than anything seen from existing AMD parts in the PC space. It also means that, by extension, more can be extracted performance-wise from the 36 available RDNA 2 compute units.
Not wishing to draw comparisons with any existing hardware past, present or future, Cerny presents an intriguing hypothetical scenario - a 36 CU graphics core running at 1GHz up against a notional 48 CU part running at 750MHz. Both deliver 4.6TF of compute performance, but Cerny says that the gaming experience would not be the same.
"Performance is noticeably different, because 'teraflops' is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units - and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33 per cent higher frequency, rasterisation goes 33 per cent faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L1 and L2 caches have that much higher bandwidth, and so on," Cerny explains in his presentation.
"About the only downside is that system memory is 33 per cent further away in terms of cycles, but the large number of benefits more than counterbalance that. As a friend of mine says, a rising tide lifts all boats," explains Cerny. "Also, it's easier to fully use 36 CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48 CUs - when triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
Sony's pitch is essentially this: a smaller GPU can be a more nimble, more agile GPU, the inference being that PS5's graphics core should be able to deliver performance higher than you may expect from a TFLOPs number that doesn't accurately encompass the capabilities of all parts of the GPU. Developers work to the power limits of the SoC, their workloads affecting frequencies on the fly - but it's those factors that impact the clock speeds, not ambient temperatures.
Cerny acknowledges that thermal solutions on prior generation hardware may not have been optimal, but the concept of operating to a set power budget makes the concept of heat dissipation an easier task to handle, despite the impressive clocks coming from the CPU and GPU.
"In some ways, it becomes a simpler problem because there are no more unknowns," Cerny says in his presentation. "There's no need to guess what power consumption the worst case game might have. As for the details of the cooling solution, we're saving them for our teardown - I think you'll be quite happy with what the engineering team came up with."
Inside PlayStation 5: the specs and the tech that deliver Sony's next-gen vision
Sony has broken its silence. PlayStation 5 specifications are now out in the open with system architect Mark Cerny deli…
www.eurogamer.net
Introducing boost for PlayStation 5
It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs. There, peak performance is tied directly to thermal headroom, so in higher temperature environments, gaming frame-rates can be lower - sometimes a lot lower. This is entirely at odds with expectations from a console, where we expect all machines to deliver the exact same performance. To be abundantly clear from the outset, PlayStation 5 is not boosting clocks in this way. According to Sony, all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be.
So how does boost work in this case? Put simply, the PlayStation 5 is given a set power budget tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. "It's a completely different paradigm," says Cerny. "Rather than running at constant frequency and letting the power vary based on the workload, we run at essentially constant power and let the frequency vary based on the workload."
An internal monitor analyses workloads on both CPU and GPU and adjusts frequencies to match. While it's true that every piece of silicon has slightly different temperature and power characteristics, the monitor bases its determinations on the behaviour of what Cerny calls a 'model SoC' (system on chip) - a standard reference point for every PlayStation 5 that will be produced.
"Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."
It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance. However, for Sony this means that PlayStation 5 can hit GPU frequencies way, way higher than we expected. Those clocks are also significantly higher than anything seen from existing AMD parts in the PC space. It also means that, by extension, more can be extracted performance-wise from the 36 available RDNA 2 compute units.
Not wishing to draw comparisons with any existing hardware past, present or future, Cerny presents an intriguing hypothetical scenario - a 36 CU graphics core running at 1GHz up against a notional 48 CU part running at 750MHz. Both deliver 4.6TF of compute performance, but Cerny says that the gaming experience would not be the same.
"Performance is noticeably different, because 'teraflops' is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units - and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33 per cent higher frequency, rasterisation goes 33 per cent faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L1 and L2 caches have that much higher bandwidth, and so on," Cerny explains in his presentation.
"About the only downside is that system memory is 33 per cent further away in terms of cycles, but the large number of benefits more than counterbalance that. As a friend of mine says, a rising tide lifts all boats," explains Cerny. "Also, it's easier to fully use 36 CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48 CUs - when triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
Sony's pitch is essentially this: a smaller GPU can be a more nimble, more agile GPU, the inference being that PS5's graphics core should be able to deliver performance higher than you may expect from a TFLOPs number that doesn't accurately encompass the capabilities of all parts of the GPU. Developers work to the power limits of the SoC, their workloads affecting frequencies on the fly - but it's those factors that impact the clock speeds, not ambient temperatures.
Cerny acknowledges that thermal solutions on prior generation hardware may not have been optimal, but the concept of operating to a set power budget makes the concept of heat dissipation an easier task to handle, despite the impressive clocks coming from the CPU and GPU.
"In some ways, it becomes a simpler problem because there are no more unknowns," Cerny says in his presentation. "There's no need to guess what power consumption the worst case game might have. As for the details of the cooling solution, we're saving them for our teardown - I think you'll be quite happy with what the engineering team came up with."
TY I missed the 1st part.Here's the part of the article from the eurogamer write up about the PS5.
Inside PlayStation 5: the specs and the tech that deliver Sony's next-gen vision
Sony has broken its silence. PlayStation 5 specifications are now out in the open with system architect Mark Cerny deli…
Introducing boost for PlayStation 5
It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs. There, peak performance is tied directly to thermal headroom, so in higher temperature environments, gaming frame-rates can be lower - sometimes a lot lower. This is entirely at odds with expectations from a console, where we expect all machines to deliver the exact same performance. To be abundantly clear from the outset, PlayStation 5 is not boosting clocks in this way. According to Sony, all PS5 consoles process the same workloads with the same performance level in any environment, no matter what the ambient temperature may be.
So how does boost work in this case? Put simply, the PlayStation 5 is given a set power budget tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. "It's a completely different paradigm," says Cerny. "Rather than running at constant frequency and letting the power vary based on the workload, we run at essentially constant power and let the frequency vary based on the workload."
An internal monitor analyses workloads on both CPU and GPU and adjusts frequencies to match. While it's true that every piece of silicon has slightly different temperature and power characteristics, the monitor bases its determinations on the behaviour of what Cerny calls a 'model SoC' (system on chip) - a standard reference point for every PlayStation 5 that will be produced.
"Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."
It's a fascinating idea - and entirely at odds with Microsoft's design decisions for Xbox Series X - and what this likely means is that developers will need to be mindful of potential power consumption spikes that could impact clocks and lower performance. However, for Sony this means that PlayStation 5 can hit GPU frequencies way, way higher than we expected. Those clocks are also significantly higher than anything seen from existing AMD parts in the PC space. It also means that, by extension, more can be extracted performance-wise from the 36 available RDNA 2 compute units.
Not wishing to draw comparisons with any existing hardware past, present or future, Cerny presents an intriguing hypothetical scenario - a 36 CU graphics core running at 1GHz up against a notional 48 CU part running at 750MHz. Both deliver 4.6TF of compute performance, but Cerny says that the gaming experience would not be the same.
"Performance is noticeably different, because 'teraflops' is defined as the computational capability of the vector ALU. That's just one part of the GPU, there are a lot of other units - and those other units all run faster when the GPU frequency is higher. At 33 per cent higher frequency, rasterisation goes 33 per cent faster, processing the command buffer goes that much faster, the L1 and L2 caches have that much higher bandwidth, and so on," Cerny explains in his presentation.
"About the only downside is that system memory is 33 per cent further away in terms of cycles, but the large number of benefits more than counterbalance that. As a friend of mine says, a rising tide lifts all boats," explains Cerny. "Also, it's easier to fully use 36 CUs in parallel than it is to fully use 48 CUs - when triangles are small, it's much harder to fill all those CUs with useful work."
Sony's pitch is essentially this: a smaller GPU can be a more nimble, more agile GPU, the inference being that PS5's graphics core should be able to deliver performance higher than you may expect from a TFLOPs number that doesn't accurately encompass the capabilities of all parts of the GPU. Developers work to the power limits of the SoC, their workloads affecting frequencies on the fly - but it's those factors that impact the clock speeds, not ambient temperatures.
Cerny acknowledges that thermal solutions on prior generation hardware may not have been optimal, but the concept of operating to a set power budget makes the concept of heat dissipation an easier task to handle, despite the impressive clocks coming from the CPU and GPU.
"In some ways, it becomes a simpler problem because there are no more unknowns," Cerny says in his presentation. "There's no need to guess what power consumption the worst case game might have. As for the details of the cooling solution, we're saving them for our teardown - I think you'll be quite happy with what the engineering team came up with."
But if one were to actually read what it says... it's not the same thing and can't be compared to other consoles or PC's.
Which everbody knew weeks ago. Well, except for the console warrior,apparently. LMAO!!
Still not the same thing as what you and other xb boys alluded to.
"It's really important to clarify the PlayStation 5's use of variable frequencies. It's called 'boost' but it should not be compared with similarly named technologies found in smartphones, or even PC components like CPUs and GPUs"
Still console warrioring and trying to make out you weren't wrong. Lol. Your a fanboy who knows nothing about the thing you are fanboying over. Great job.
I was wrong about the term I honestly missed it. But maybe because it's completely different than the way other devices use it.
You didn’t quote Cerny, you quoted a Eurogamer/Digital Foundry author, who you said you do not trust. Now you believe them?
I think the people who are stuck on Sony not having VRS because they didn't mention it need to think back to last year when they were likely the same ones saying PS5 didn't have hardware accelerated RT because Cerny only said the console supported RT but didn't specifically say how. I think Cerny forgets how literal people can be online, how they look for every little thing to try to turn it to fit their narrative, he probably gives people too much credit. It could be that they have it and didn't discuss it because they had a bunch of other stuff that was specific to their console that they wanted to talk about instead, that thing was already 45 minutes long so things have to be cut, why spend time talking about VRS if they don't think it's as important as other features they wanted to be sure to get to. Maybe it doesn't have it, if it's part of RDNA2 it would seem strange to not be there but maybe it's not, either way just assuming it's not there doesn't make much sense.
Some times it’s the little things that matter, to sone, they didn’t need to go into detail but it would’ve been reassuring even if it was just a footnote or bulletpoint listed. I just want to see first party games designed with it in mind. With most people not accustom to being at home I’m sure they’re dying for any new legit info.
This is true. But the narrative gets twisted on both sides of the console war. But particularly Sony this time as they left a lot of their messaging vague.
It's one thing for people to say they aren't sure something is there that's totally fair but for people to say "oh it must not be" is just dumb especially when some of the features are already baked into RDNA2. That doesn't mean they are there 100% but why just assume they aren't?
Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation console’s launch, according to people familiar with the matter.
t.co
Didn't Sony have a conference video to clarify exactly what the PS5 hardware does? Why should they expect people to research RDNA2 or anything to do with AMDs roadmap for things they omit from their conference? How on earth can you blame people who assume that the console only does the features that they discussed in their deep dive? Isn't this the fault of Sony and their messaging? Why even do the deep dive and omit vital information? I really don't understand this perspective.
No they didn't have a conference video to clarify everything, where did you get that? the DF guy talked to Cerny a bit but he didn't get much more out of him than what was already said.
That deep dive wasn't meant to go into 100% of everything the PS5 offers, they talked about the parts that they found most important and that was it, did you want to hear everything? would you have watched another 30 min or more of that? I'm as excited for the next gen as anyone but that presentation went on too long as it was. It's one thing when you have some footage to show, it's another to have Cerny speak for 45 minutes and not see any visual representations of what he's talking about.
Yes it's clear Sony isn't doing the best job with communication right now, they need to be more clear about some things but people also need to stop pretending that Sony should be trying to answer what MS is doing and if Sony doesn't mention something that MS does that it means that feature is missing. If you don't know you don't know so assuming "oh it doesn't have it" because they didn't say it did is stupid, they didn't say it didn't have it right?
If they don't say it they don't have it.End of. Sure, you may be proven wrong down the line but that is only an issue for those who use it as ammo in their war.
It was supposed to be a deep dive too. Which just leaves folk even more puzzled when stuff like this isn't mentioned. Maybe thought it was given because it is RDNA2 based, but that doesn't work when you call it custom.
“According to the sources cited by Bloomberg, the production capacity for the PS5 hasn't been affected by the pandemic, while the promotional plans have. However, the decision to limit production to about 5 to 6 million console units by March 2021 is rather due to the PS5's high price, which may sit between $499 and $549. Sony has apparently struggled with increased component prices. There's also a chance both the PS5 and Microsoft's Xbox Series X will end up being priced $450, according to Macquarie Capital analyst Damien Thong, though that would mean both companies selling at a loss (which wouldn't be a first in the console business, by the way).”
I have to wonder if this has been planned all along. 9 months ago Kenichiro Yoshida said that the PS5 will be a "niche" product aimed at the "hardcore".
"denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population. "
"denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population. "
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