The Naughty Dog Agenda

[Frozpot]

I just don't know how anyone can really be a true friend to someone who they feel is wrong for being who they are. Don't get me wrong being gay doesn't define any of us but it is a part of who we are and I have a hard time thinking I could ever truly consider someone a real friend if I knew deep down they didn't really respect me. I would think those are just people I know but they aren't the type of people that I could count on if something was going down and I'm likely not the person they are going to call if they need something.

That being said it's also nice to see so much progress being made, seeing the differences from where we are now vs when I was in high school back in the late 80's early 90's is very encouraging.

I don't think that is true at all. I find it interesting that the religious angle is the only explanation for people being uncomfortable with homosexuality.

That doesn't mean you hate or even dislike someone who is. I honestly get weirded out when I see it, though to be fair, I don't really want to watch someone else make out in my face regardless of sexual orientation unless I'm trying to prime myself for amorous activity. I don't cast aspersions on people who (for whatever reason) feel/act in a way natural to them, and I would never advocate treating someone as less of a person solely based on sexuality. But trying to tell me I'm somehow backwards (I don't think you are saying this, I am being general) because I don't love to see it is a bit ironic, imo.

So many things we do are tied to natural evolutionary viable actions/ behaviors. A general revulsion makes sense if you want keep a species in existence. Sex and relationships are so controversial because they are based in mating ritual/ child rearing, so a natural tendency to reject actions out of line with that makes logical sense.

It's the same reason violence rates so low on the controversy scale. It's literally how we have survived threats to our lives through all of history. It's a massive part of how to survive and even thrive (in some contexts), and has been forefront to humanity for all it's existence (like sex). On the other hand, ironically, First-world nation populations largely have zero experience with that kind of real violence, so it's not very relatable, making it easier to take lightly. Granted, I HAVE personally seen that kind of violence, and it doesn't bother me in games (see reason 1).

That's MY two cents, anyway. I just know that calling people evil or wrong for having a natural reaction to an evolutionarily non-viable action is as wrong as hating people who can't help how they feel about people of the same sex. More understanding is needed.

 

[Frozpot]

I always thought they should go with totally new characters. The first game ended in a way that it doesn't need to be followed up. Joel's story in particular felt complete. If it is a revenge story it wouldn't surprise me if he is the one who dies.

I honestly wouldn't mind that.
I've seen people point out that Ellie is wearing some bracelet (given by the girl?). It would be a convenient plot device if she is avenging her lover. Then Joel can live, and maybe even help Ellie in he walk back from the destructive effect of revenge (though in that particular world, it's a drop in the bucket). That might be cool to watch.

 

[TeKPhaN]

You got to love the old "I have black friends" defense

Here comes the predictable race talk/comparison that the liberals like you run 2 when you have nothing.

I hope you like talking to yourself cause you just made my ignore list.

 

[TeKPhaN]

As long as Uncharted 5 doesn't feature a transsexual Nathan Drake, I'm good... Then it would smack of political agenda. Now it just seems like a part of ND's valuing of diversity, which is something Druckman has talked a lot about. I'm fine with that. I dislike SJW/feminist/leftist identity politics, but that's not what this seems like to me.

How would have gamers reacted if Joel was the gay one, rather than Ellie? I'm guessing the reaction would be very different. Most people find two women kissing to be interesting, not objectionable. But most gamers are guys, and I suspect a lot of them would have issues if the primary male protagonist was gay.

Val, I don't think you need to worry about explaining the reasons for your feelings, if that's what you want to do. You've made a couple of comments to the effect that if you were to go into detail, you'd get banned. Afaik, we've never banned anyone for politically incorrect opinions. This isn't GAF or Era, where you're going to be banned because you are "rationalizing hate speech" or whatever SJW terminology they are using this week. I think everyone knows where your position is coming from anyhow (your religious beliefs). You can expect ridicule, criticism, and push-back, but I don't think you need to worry about banning, unless you start trolling or making personal attacks on individual members.

d00d you do know if you don't want Drake being transexual that that's a problem right?(that's how pathetic dealing with LBGTQRSTUZ can be)

resetera would likely ban for just saying you don't want that stuff in games as they are heavy in that movement

 

[TeKPhaN]

I just don't know how anyone can really be a true friend to someone who they feel is wrong for being who they are. Don't get me wrong being gay doesn't define any of us but it is a part of who we are and I have a hard time thinking I could ever truly consider someone a real friend if I knew deep down they didn't really respect me. I would think those are just people I know but they aren't the type of people that I could count on if something was going down and I'm likely not the person they are going to call if they need something.

That being said it's also nice to see so much progress being made, seeing the differences from where we are now vs when I was in high school back in the late 80's early 90's is very encouraging.

This some straight up bs right here.
People in our lives family or friend have things in there lives that we don't agree with but they still are our friends/loved ones.

 

[TeKPhaN]

I always wonder if those people who think that being gay is a choice, have gay tendencies themselves. I don't know how else to explain that. You are what you are. How can you judge someone else's thoughts and feelings unless you also have those feelings? But saying that it's a choice, are you saying that you also have that interest or feeling but suppress it? This is something that I've always wondered.

Also, it's pretty convenient that a good book written by men condemns a lifestyle that historically doesn't promote more devotees (children). You've got to grow the membership!

I'm an agnostic, which some egotistical evangelicals like to equate to being an atheist. That's BS of the highest order. I also simply refuse to believe that a creator of life would ever put hatred in front of love. Love is everything, and all that we will ever carry forth. To go against love, is simply sacrilege.

So because you don't have the spirit to understand the word you can criticize it?
Your whole post is wrong according to it but lets keep the bible out of this convo ok?

 

[karmakid]

No one likes agenda. That's the main deal, honestly. It feels forced in our faces because it wasn't something so intimately focused on in games in general. Not talking about the relationship, but the close up, lingering makeout shot. That's a lot of effort for something that can be conveyed more simply. It was definitely a poke.

It was also a poke in a game (now series) drenched in bleak survival. Sexual relationships were not any kind of focus. Joel and Tess were obviously a pair, but it was hard and out of necessity and some loose desire not be alone. That was their tone.

I'm sure it's to juxtapose the happy vs the bleak, and I expect she will die so Ellie can go all revenge-y (plus side being Joel is still around).

My main concern is that the story draw for me from the first game was the dynamic between Joel and Ellie. Joel's redemption ( my favorite kind of story) and the hope for the future.

This set up is less interesting (so far) to me. I think Naughty Dog said it's a revenge story, and I'm not sure I like that. You gotta balance that bleak future otherwise it's a negative slog. The first game's violence was in a defensive context (aside from the beginning to show how terrible Joel and tess had become). Revenge is a different animal.

All that said, we really don't know much about how the story will play out, but I wonder if, if Ellie's orientation is a pivotal plot device, they will address any conflict over the only person who is immune to the virus not reproducing. Especially given that they couldn't figure out how to make a vaccine in the first game. That would be an interesting angle.

The first trailer was really focused on her playing that guitar. Unless that’s some allegory that any of have yet to figure out, these trailers seem to be setting up something big through intimate moments that probably will haunt her.

I always thought they should go with totally new characters. The first game ended in a way that it doesn't need to be followed up. Joel's story in particular felt complete. If it is a revenge story it wouldn't surprise me if he is the one who dies.

What if they both die, Joel and that girl she kissed.

Does she have a name?

 

[yankeessuck]

The first trailer was really focused on her playing that guitar. Unless that’s some allegory that any of have yet to figure out, these trailers seem to be setting up something big through intimate moments that probably will haunt her.

Naughty Dog and their disgusting pro guitar agenda

 

[GordoSan]

So because you don't have the spirit to understand the word you can criticize it?
Your whole post is wrong according to it but lets keep the bible out of this convo ok?

Actually, I never mentioned the bible by name for a reason, and that just shows how myopic followers can be. There are many other scriptures and "Holy texts" other than whatever it is that you follow. All were written by man. The sinner. Oh, but lemme guess...only yours it's the true word. Spare me.

 

[karmakid]

Naughty Dog and their disgusting pro guitar agenda

I know right, I keep getting these folk showing up at my door asking if I heard the the sound of acoustic. I’m like “sorry lads, I’m electric, but my gf is...” one day we’ll have a lil acoustic electric guitar. *stares off out the window thinking of what to get for lunch*

 

[Kvally]

Naughty Dog and their disgusting pro guitar agenda

 

[karmakid]

 

[GordoSan]

That thing looks like it fell right out of Melissa Etheridge's window.

 

[yankeessuck]

Offensive. I hope you like talking to yourself cause you just made my ignore list.

 

[Kvally]

Offensive. I hope you like talking to yourself cause you just made my ignore list.

If I were gay, I would kiss you.

 

[Frozpot]

What if they both die, Joel and that girl she kissed.

Does she have a name?

Then she will be very, very, very, very mad...

 

[karmakid]

If I were gay, I would kiss you.

But what if he’s a “butterface”???

Honestly, that one girl Ellie kissed was kinda one too, if she’s happy then cool, but my guess is she’s gonna be the reason why she may go “man on fire” up in this biz, yo! *trows hands in the air and walks away backwards*

 

[yankeessuck]

If I were gay, I would kiss you.

Only if Val can be the meat in our sandwich

 

[Kvally]

Only if Val can be the meat in our sandwich

Nothing like a good tender.....love.

 

[Andy]

d00d you do know if you don't want Drake being transexual that that's a problem right?(that's how pathetic dealing with LBGTQRSTUZ can be)

resetera would likely ban for just saying you don't want that stuff in games as they are heavy in that movement

Yeah, I would've gotten at least a warning, had I posted that on Era. Transphobic, no doubt.

I probably would've got a warning for the joke about the "no h0mo" option, too. I don't care. It's funny to me -- a menu option alongside the others (e.g. captions on/off, resolution vs. performance mode, etc.), with a little box you can tick labelled "no h0mo." lol But I've probably triggered someone with my micro-aggression.

We've lost our sense of humor. Or rather, it's been controlled and curtailed. A lot of comedians won't even go on campuses anymore because people in the audience will invariably take offense to some bit or another, stand up and shout about it, then write the dean, whatever. Nuts.

 

[Andy]

This set up is less interesting (so far) to me. I think Naughty Dog said it's a revenge story, and I'm not sure I like that. You gotta balance that bleak future otherwise it's a negative slog.

Same. I've never gotten into stories of revenge much. It just doesn't resonate for me. Doesn't seem heroic or admirable. It was one of the things that killed Fallout Vegas for me, which others claim is a great game but I could never get into, because it's a story about revenge.

My guess is that the bulk of the game will be about hate and revenge, but then Ellie will see the light somehow and have a change of mind.

 

[JinCA]

There is a trans character in this game as well, at least the actor is trans, she was in the last cinematic. I don't want to lump being trans and being gay in the same group though, even though all of the letters get combined into one label (LGBT...UVWXYZ)I have no desire to be a woman and never have lol. I'm not talking badly about trans people in saying that, I just don't understand how they feel and don't think gay people should be grouped with them because I think it causes some confusion. Gender identity and sexual orientation aren't the same thing but for some reason we are always grouped together, I'm guessing it's a "stronger together" mindset but we really aren't the same.

This some straight up bs right here.
People in our lives family or friend have things in there lives that we don't agree with but they still are our friends/loved ones.

Family is in your life regardless of who they are, friends are people you choose to have in your life. I find it hard to believe that you would choose to have people in your life if you truly disagree with who they are. How could you be a real friend to someone if you put limitations on the scope of the friendship? Would you want a gay friend to talk to you if they were having relationship problems? would they feel comfortable talking to you about that knowing how you feel about that part of their life to begin with? Maybe we have different thoughts on what a true friend is.

 

[JinCA]

I don't think that is true at all. I find it interesting that the religious angle is the only explanation for people being uncomfortable with homosexuality.

That doesn't mean you hate or even dislike someone who is. I honestly get weirded out when I see it, though to be fair, I don't really want to watch someone else make out in my face regardless of sexual orientation unless I'm trying to prime myself for amorous activity. I don't cast aspersions on people who (for whatever reason) feel/act in a way natural to them, and I would never advocate treating someone as less of a person solely based on sexuality. But trying to tell me I'm somehow backwards (I don't think you are saying this, I am being general) because I don't love to see it is a bit ironic, imo.

So many things we do are tied to natural evolutionary viable actions/ behaviors. A general revulsion makes sense if you want keep a species in existence. Sex and relationships are so controversial because they are based in mating ritual/ child rearing, so a natural tendency to reject actions out of line with that makes logical sense.

It's the same reason violence rates so low on the controversy scale. It's literally how we have survived threats to our lives through all of history. It's a massive part of how to survive and even thrive (in some contexts), and has been forefront to humanity for all it's existence (like sex). On the other hand, ironically, First-world nation populations largely have zero experience with that kind of real violence, so it's not very relatable, making it easier to take lightly. Granted, I HAVE personally seen that kind of violence, and it doesn't bother me in games (see reason 1).

That's MY two cents, anyway. I just know that calling people evil or wrong for having a natural reaction to an evolutionarily non-viable action is as wrong as hating people who can't help how they feel about people of the same sex. More understanding is needed.

I totally understand someone feeling awkward when they see two people of the same gender kissing, it's not something we see on a daily basis, it's only recently that it's even become accepted by the majority of people, hell the first time I went to a gay club I was weirded out and I am gay lol. Feeling awkward and being repulsed by it are different though, being repulsed by it is voluntary not involuntary, it's your own thoughts and judgements guiding that process not some evolutionary reaction. Now if you were talking about being asked to participate in it I'd totally agree but just seeing it causing someone to be upset seems a bit much.

 

[karmakid]

There is a trans character in this game as well, at least the actor is trans, she was in the last cinematic. I don't want to lump being trans and being gay in the same group though, even though all of the letters get combined into one label (LGBT...UVWXYZ)I have no desire to be a woman and never have lol. I'm not talking badly about trans people in saying that, I just don't understand how they feel and don't think gay people should be grouped with them because I think it causes some confusion. Gender identity and sexual orientation aren't the same thing but for some reason we are always grouped together, I'm guessing it's a "stronger together" mindset but we really aren't the same.


Family is in your life regardless of who they are, friends are people you choose to have in your life. I find it hard to believe that you would choose to have people in your life if you truly disagree with who they are. How could you be a real friend to someone if you put limitations on the scope of the friendship? Would you want a gay friend to talk to you if they were having relationship problems? would they feel comfortable talking to you about that knowing how you feel about that part of their life to begin with? Maybe we have different thoughts on what a true friend is.

What about those who happen to be LG or B and Trans?


Better yet, where is Bellybama and his sassy and or serious comments? Is he in the states yet?

 

[JinCA]

What about those who happen to be LG or B and Trans?


Better yet, where is Bellybama and his sassy and or serious comments? Is he in the states yet?

Then they are both but it's confusing to people who already don't understand one group to lump two groups together who really aren't the same

That's the problem with having to lump everyone into groups, when you cast a wide net and you catch a lot of fish, even the ones you weren't looking for.

 

[Frozpot]

I totally understand someone feeling awkward when they see two people of the same gender kissing, it's not something we see on a daily basis. Feeling awkward and being repulsed by it are different though, being repulsed by it is voluntary not involuntary, it's your own thoughts and judgements guiding that process not some evolutionary reaction.

I do not agree. Repulsion is not voluntary, lol. I suppose it CAN be. Repulsion is a reaction. You don't choose to be repulsed . That can be driven by your set of values, but how we interpret our world underlies everything. Acting like there is no evolutionary, biological reason for a person to have a natural aversion is willful ignorance.

As long as people try to force or denigrate people (who aren't even mistreating people) for how they see the world- you will get push back. I have a real problem with this requirement that people have to accept a specific value judgement else you are some hateful bigot.

It's not about realizing that it's OK for people to see the world differently, or be different from the norm- YOU have to accept, support, and even cheer-lead. NO. Tolerance is tolerance, not necessarily acceptance.

The important thing is that we treat each other with respect and understand that we may not get everyone's seal of approval for everything we do- A civil society does not require this. Content of Character should override generally arbitrary factors like sexuality, but that doesn't mean you are required to embrace or normalize everything under the sun.

 

[JinCA]

I do not agree. Repulsion is not voluntary, lol. I suppose it CAN be. Repulsion is a reaction. You don't choose to be repulsed . That can be driven by your set of values, but how we interpret our world underlies everything. Acting like there is no evolutionary, biological reason for a person to have a natural aversion is willful ignorance.

As long as people try to force or denigrate people (who aren't even mistreating people) for how they see the world- you will get push back. I have a real problem with this requirement that people have to accept a specific value judgement else you are some hateful bigot.

It's not about realizing that it's OK for people to see the world differently, or be different from the norm- YOU have to accept, support, and even cheer-lead. NO. Tolerance is tolerance, not necessarily acceptance.

The important thing is that we treat each other with respect and understand that we may not get everyone's seal of approval for everything we do- A civil society does not require this. Content of Character should override generally arbitrary factors like sexuality, but that doesn't mean you are required to embrace or normalize everything under the sun.

I don't think people have to accept it but when you are talking about a piece of art which someone else has created and you are totally free to not support financially if it offends your sense of "morality" it's a bit much telling them to bend their creative process to fit your chosen "value" system. I don't mean that as in you personally, just so we are clear

The issue I have is people who are "anti gay" or think it's wrong when they haven't taken the time to actually talk to a gay person about it, they would rather listen to a person who has no first hand experience reinforce their own prejudices instead of educating themselves. It's not a choice and anyone who says it is doesn't know what they are talking about. The only choice is letting people know who you are vs hiding it and living a lie just to make others happy. I know that all sounds dramatic but it's really just how it is.

You are right about the approval thing though, you can't force people to approve regardless of if they have made an honest effort to understand each other or not. Being respectful to each other is important in maintaining civility but I also wouldn't call someone a friend who I felt looked down on me, you can be friendly with people without actually calling them a friend IMO.

 

[Frozpot]

There is a trans character in this game as well, at least the actor is trans, she was in the last cinematic. I don't want to lump being trans and being gay in the same group though, even though all of the letters get combined into one label (LGBT...UVWXYZ)I have no desire to be a woman and never have lol. I'm not talking badly about trans people in saying that, I just don't understand how they feel and don't think gay people should be grouped with them because I think it causes some confusion. Gender identity and sexual orientation aren't the same thing but for some reason we are always grouped together, I'm guessing it's a "stronger together" mindset but we really aren't the same.

I agree. I don't see the two the same way at all. It's an identity politics thing though.

Family is in your life regardless of who they are, friends are people you choose to have in your life. I find it hard to believe that you would choose to have people in your life if you truly disagree with who they are. How could you be a real friend to someone if you put limitations on the scope of the friendship? Would you want a gay friend to talk to you if they were having relationship problems? would they feel comfortable talking to you about that knowing how you feel about that part of their life to begin with? Maybe we have different thoughts on what a true friend is.

Na. Maybe if this activity your friend engages in is genuinely destructive to themselves or others would there be some conflict. You don't have to be into the lifestyle choices to give relationship advice anyway- that s***'s universal. It's really not that hard to compartmentalize. You know your friend is a good person (hopefully). I don't ask particulars about anyone's sex life anyway. Sex is really just a part of a persons' activities. Motivations are far more important.

I'm not sure what limitations you mean toward their friendship. If I had a gay friend tell me about the act I'd be like "gross dude", then whatever. It wouldn't be nasty toward them or anything. I really don't get why alt-lifestyle people can't wrap their head around why us "normies" wouldn't find that undesirable. You ever watch weird porn where you were like "nope!". That's what I'm talking about.

 

[JinCA]

I agree. I don't see the two the same way at all. It's an identity politics thing though.



Na. Maybe if this activity your friend engages in is genuinely destructive to themselves or others would there be some conflict. You don't have to be into the lifestyle choices to give relationship advice anyway- that s***'s universal. It's really not that hard to compartmentalize. You know your friend is a good person (hopefully). I don't ask particulars about anyone's sex life anyway. Sex is really just a part of a persons' activities. Motivations are far more important.

I'm not sure what limitations you mean toward their friendship. If I had a gay friend tell me about the act I'd be like "gross dude", then whatever. It wouldn't be nasty toward them or anything. I really don't get why alt-lifestyle people can't wrap their head around why us "normies" wouldn't find that undesirable. You ever watch weird porn where you were like "nope!". That's what I'm talking about.

Never talk about sex details regardless of sexual orientation, that's just gross lol. Although I do find it funny that my straight friends are always the ones that would try to go into details about their sex lives lol.

I don't want to word police but being gay isn't a lifestyle choice, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but that's the kind of thing the word Nazi's will jump on lol. If a friend was a drug user and was telling you about how much crack they smoked yeah I can totally see telling them you don't want to hear about it. If it's someone who is telling you about a relationship problem and asking advice or just wanting to vent or even talk about a nice weekend trip they had with their partner that's totally different IMO. If I always feel like there is a cloud hanging over what I'm allowed to say while the other person can talk freely about all of the same things going on in their life I don't really think I could consider them a friend, they could be someone I'm friendly with or someone I know but I really don't use the word friend loosely.

 

[TDbank24]

So what's the agenda again because correct me if i'm wrong, and i'm not trying to start a war or anything here, but isn't Gears 5 led by a female?

Oh okay, essentially just a pot shot at Sony devs and how PS exclusives are all the same thread again? Carry on.