UnionVGF Indie Game developers (or thinking about becoming one) corner

[Z A C K]

Moving over to a top down game instead of 2d :

Now this took about 5 min to set up after reading how set up jumping in Playmaker (Unity):

Thinking of making a top down game where can jump over stuff, rpg.
The capsule will be replaced later when I have tested the rest of the controllers: move, run and jump over cliff.
Name on capsule is there because have show state label enabled, can be removed.

Cool idea. I think a top down platformer would be interesting.

 

[Godsmack]

Well, I'm in it to win it. There's no turning back now...

I just bought a second monitor to speed up my productivity. It'll be used for reference images or to help me follow tutorials easier. It's just a cheap 20" HP monitor, but it serves its purpose.

I also decided to use 3d assets. So, I bought Zbrush for $800. Yeah. I like being able to sculpt a figure rather than render polygons, and this program was designed for artists so it gives me the same feeling as working in 2d almost. I still get to draw with my Wacom tablet. I'm going to spend the next few days learning the software. I find it surprisingly easy to create stuff and fairly quick too. I feel like I'm actually making something when I work in 3d.

The reason I am going 3d is because 3d objects are more tangible. When you draw something in 2d, all you have is one frame. You can't make any adjustments to it without having to redraw the parts that need adjusting. 3d will also help me give the game a more realistic look like the classic Baldur's Gate or Diablo games.

Of course, the engine is still 2d, so I will be exporting 3d models as frames. This means I don't have to worry about polygon count and can make the games look as detailed as I want.

 

[starseeker]

As a 3D artist, I say you need still a more complete 3D software, like Blender (which is free). Zbrush is good for high density models, but for game level 3D, a 3D software like Maya/MAX/Blender will be better, & you will need to learned to switch between them as well.
Typical example is creating a Base 3D model is Maya, then import to Zbrush to sculpt.

You also cannot make animation with Zbrush, or accurately aligned your 3D asserts, & you need to be able to do so, if you are going for modular design.

There is no big shortcut when it comes to 3D. It takes time, no matter how talented you are. But lucky you, as bad as I am a programmer, 2D artist, I am a pretty good 3D artist (but mostly in character design). Shoot if you have any question regarding 3D., even CAD 3D.

 

[Godsmack]

As a 3D artist, I say you need still a more complete 3D software, like Blender (which is free). Zbrush is good for high density models, but for game level 3D, a 3D software like Maya/MAX/Blender will be better, & you will need to learned to switch between them as well.
Typical example is creating a Base 3D model is Maya, then import to Zbrush to sculpt.

You also cannot make animation with Zbrush, or accurately aligned your 3D asserts, & you need to be able to do so, if you are going for modular design.

There is no big shortcut when it comes to 3D. It takes time, no matter how talented you are. But lucky you, as bad as I am a programmer, 2D artist, I am a pretty good 3D artist (but mostly in character design). Shoot if you have any question regarding 3D., even CAD 3D.

Cool, I'll let you know if I run into any issues.

Luckily, my game is still going to be tile-based, so it will be built with small blocks, sort of like Minecraft I guess. The screenshot below is what my game level looks like now (it was made quickly). It's made up of square tiles (in isometric perspective) and ground tiles. I made the these tiles in Painter, so they are all 2d. So, all I will need to create the environment will be to create each individual tile. The game is programmed to build the map itself randomly and place them appropriately.

The 3d models will be posed just like those 2d sprites. So, in a sense, it will still be 2d.

I know that Zbrush has had some recent updates to further support animations. I saw a training video about rigging a character and creating animations that I'm going to check out. If I can't get satisfying results, I can always export it to another program for the animations. Each animation frame will be saved as an image and Construct 2 will create hold the full animation this way.

 

[starseeker]

Looking great! Very Diablo 2ish.

Zbrush has very limited rig capability, & not intended for in game animation, as the rig & animation cannot be exported (as far as I know). Its good if you only wanted a still picture. I used it often too, but its buggy as hell.

Proper animation & rig have to be done in a 3D animation package, but character setup, rigging, & animations are the toughest & time consuming things to do in 3D. Everything about character is just much harder in 3D than other 3D objects. In 2D, there is not clear difference between painting a still object & a character.

But as hard as they are, character are sure fun, & very rewarding.

Anyway, I can't wait to get back to making my main character for my game. I will post here hopefully soon.

 

[Godsmack]

Looking great! Very Diablo 2ish.

Zbrush has very limited rig capability, & not intended for in game animation, as the rig & animation cannot be exported (as far as I know). Its good if you only wanted a still picture. I used it often too, but its buggy as hell.

Proper animation & rig have to be done in a 3D animation package, but character setup, rigging, & animations are the toughest & time consuming things to do in 3D. Everything about character is just much harder in 3D than other 3D objects. In 2D, there is not clear difference between painting a still object & a character.

But as hard as they are, character are sure fun, & very rewarding.

Anyway, I can't wait to get back to making my main character for my game. I will post here hopefully soon.

Well, I've spent most of the evening looking at animation options. I don't see anything in the paid programs that I absolutely need (unless there's anything that will make animating easier or faster), so I am probably okay using free solutions.

Blender seems to do what I need. I only need basic bones set up. Like I said, it's a fairly old school kind of game. The animations will be fairly simple. I just need to make them look nice. This programs doesn't look THAT hard to learn. I just need to use it for making the animations and making sure it's rendered/exported properly.

I also looked at Daz Studio since I already had it installed (but never really used...). It has an option to import Zbrush objects, but I couldn't figure out how to add a bone. I don't know why, but every tutorial seemed to be really outdated.

Either way, I also need to figure out how to properly import a Zbrush character. I like the way you can set materials in Zbrush, like if you wanted a skin texture and a metal texture for the armor. I just need to figure out how to get that carried over to Blender or whatnot.

I don't think that creating the character will be all that difficult. I just need to learn the UI and quirks of Zbrush and get used to it. Then I just need to figure out the exporting issues that I mentioned earlier.

 

[starseeker]

Good luck then.

 

[DLC]

Trying to recreate my main character in Blender, could take some time.

As for Unity, camera now is about where I want it to be, since need to be able to see where to jump.

 

[Godsmack]

Hmm, I'm tempted to get Modo. It looks pretty user friendly and is about half the price of Maya and whatnot. I need to keep playing with it.

Of course, I hear both good and bad things about it. I don't know how the rigging and animation holds up (which may have been improved in version 801), and that's one of the main reasons I would get it.

There's Maya LT as well which is not too bad price wise. I just don't know what all it's missing from the full version.

 

[DLC]

Used many hours on Blender, then all of sudden I realized that I was working too much detail into it, since are gone be seen from above I don`t need all the details ( I can keep it very simple) also for cut scenes I can use 2d pictures of the characters.
Sow this is about how the characters will look, only finish with head sow far, now for completing rest of the parts and then textures and I`m done with the main character.

 

[Z A C K]

Very interesting to see the work you guys do. Looking forward to seeing more of what you guys post.

 

[Godsmack]

Used many hours on Blender, then all of sudden I realized that I was working too much detail into it, since are gone be seen from above I don`t need all the details ( I can keep it very simple) also for cut scenes I can use 2d pictures of the characters.
Sow this is about how the characters will look, only finish with head sow far, now for completing rest of the parts and then textures and I`m done with the main character.

If it's going to be seen from above, what kind of top-down view is it? Is it going to be like the old Zelda games, Baldur's Gate/Diablo isometric style, or pure top down where you can only see the top of the head.

 

[DLC]

If it's going to be seen from above, what kind of top-down view is it? Is it going to be like the old Zelda games, Baldur's Gate/Diablo isometric style, or pure top down where you can only see the top of the head.

I was hoping to make something like the old Zelda games, however since have platform elements then I needed camera like I have it now,will see if can do something later on with it.
Sow far all that are gone see of character is mostly head and back, arms and feet when moving.

Have done it sow that when pressing A and D main character will rotate to face left and right, S will make the character rotate all the way, sow holding S will spin the character around to see all around him, figured had to do it like this to be able to see where to jump, bad thing is that no can walk backwards.

For rigging and animation I wonder if gone use the dynamic bone asset or something else (have a lot of assets I have bought for just this).

 

[Godsmack]

I was hoping to make something like the old Zelda games, however since have platform elements then I needed camera like I have it now,will see if can do something later on with it.
Sow far all that are gone see of character is mostly head and back, arms and feet when moving.

Have done it sow that when pressing A and D main character will rotate to face left and right, S will make the character rotate all the way, sow holding S will spin the character around to see all around him, figured had to do it like this to be able to see where to jump, bad thing is that no can walk backwards.

For rigging and animation I wonder if gone use the dynamic bone asset or something else (have a lot of assets I have bought for just this).

Sounds cool. I usually like to work with rough placeholders while I'm working out the game mechanics. I like to do just enough to see what it looks like, but not so much that I dread redoing it if I want to change things. Since my game engine is 2d, I actually used placeholder sprites from old Genesis games just to test out the gameplay and get some ideas of how things are going to look.

In 3d, you'll probably have a harder time using placeholders for characters or whatnot, but don't get carried away with details until you are sure you like what is going on.

What game was the inspiration for your game? I can't remember if you said or not. I have a hard time keeping up with details.

Anyway, I'm thinking of picking up Modo. It's on sale for the next month for like half off. I like it so far.

 

[DLC]

Sounds cool. I usually like to work with rough placeholders while I'm working out the game mechanics. I like to do just enough to see what it looks like, but not so much that I dread redoing it if I want to change things. Since my game engine is 2d, I actually used placeholder sprites from old Genesis games just to test out the gameplay and get some ideas of how things are going to look.

In 3d, you'll probably have a harder time using placeholders for characters or whatnot, but don't get carried away with details until you are sure you like what is going on.

What game was the inspiration for your game? I can't remember if you said or not. I have a hard time keeping up with details.

Anyway, I'm thinking of picking up Modo. It's on sale for the next month for like half off. I like it so far.

Well a lot of games: Zelda a link to the past is one of them, tho gone be more rpg and platformer.
Not yet sure if gone add heart collecting to the game, then again that may make sure that people explorer all of the game, and since large parts are gone be optional to explorer when reach a character level that is required for the main story to continue.

Wish I could add some moves like the Ninja Gaiden series since main character is gone be an assassin, but have to see what I manage to make there.

 

[Pureshooter]

This is so good. I can't even stand it.

I agree. So good I hate myself.

 

[starseeker]

Trying to recreate my main character in Blender, could take some time.

As for Unity, camera now is about where I want it to be, since need to be able to see where to jump.

Whats the pixel space of the character? Do you have a Polygon targets for the character and scene?

Anyway, for character, you have to be careful about mesh topology, & place them so it support the range of movements you wanted.

 

[DLC]

Whats the pixel space of the character? Do you have a Polygon targets for the character and scene?

Anyway, for character, you have to be careful about mesh topology, & place them so it support the range of movements you wanted.

For characters I will try to keep around 3000 - 5000 polygons (with weapons), for the scene itself could be much more since I bought the
SECTR COMPLETE asset ( https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/15356) I hope to be able to make a detailed large world with 4 continents.

Bought a lot of top down assets:



Sow I will mostly be making the characters and weapons and the scipts used within the game.

For the head sow far I have around 1300 polygons (if I am reading this correctly).

Rigging and animation I think will be doing within Unity, have just the assets need for that, I gone try the dynamic bone asset,

 

[starseeker]

Wait you can buy the complete set & use within your game? Wow. The level looks so polished already!

1300 Polygon as in triangle right? You should be able to get good details with around 5000 polygon(tris) with normal map applied.


My all time #1 tips for character modeling.
1) Go for proportion first (with minimum amount of polygon) ie. proper arm/leg ratio, proper spacing between eyes, proper size of head to body etc. (once your level of details become huge, it will be harder to refine the proportion again)
2) Go for shape i.e correct definition of legs, hand, fingers, eyes shape, mouth.
3) Then should you go for details, try to maximise the level of details in the lowest subdivsion possible, then subdivide, repeat these steps.


Anyway, going back to modeling task, making some mandane objects for used in the game, as warm up before getting back to making my one & only character in the game.

Took me a while to layout the keys on the laptop, but otherwise pretty straight forward modeling task. I will make the high polygon models for normal mapping when I am in the mood.

 

[DLC]

Wait you can buy the complete set & use within your game? Wow. The level looks so polished already!

1300 Polygon as in triangle right? You should be able to get good details with around 5000 polygon(tris) with normal map applied.


My all time #1 tips for character modeling.
1) Go for proportion first (with minimum amount of polygon) ie. proper arm/leg ratio, proper spacing between eyes, proper size of head to body etc. (once your level of details become huge, it will be harder to refine the proportion again)
2) Go for shape i.e correct definition of legs, hand, fingers, eyes shape, mouth.
3) Then should you go for details, try to maximise the level of details in the lowest subdivsion possible, then subdivide, repeat these steps.


Anyway, going back to modeling task, making some mandane objects for used in the game, as warm up before getting back to making my one & only character in the game.

Took me a while to layout the keys on the laptop, but otherwise pretty straight forward modeling task. I will make the high polygon models for normal mapping when I am in the mood.

Yes can buy complete set of assets, and the videos there are from the demo scenes that follow with the assets sow easy can see how it is all put together (tho very easy to place ), of the top down assets I have bought have up to 200 to over 300 prefabs sow building the world should go very fast.

Yeah triangles, gone set 5000 as max limit, have been reading that with the right sort of shaders can get a lot of details into low polygon characters .

Now for eyes and mouth, I think gone do it very simple since got a top down view, as for main character is not gone be able to see front on anyway, at least not how I have made the camera work to always show the back.
And for cut scenes gone use 2d pictures of the faces talking since I already have a lot of 2d pictures made.

 

[starseeker]

5000 triangles are enough polygon to make decent face (together with everything else). I will not worry so much. Alot of last gen character are in this polygon range.

There is a program call XNALara, which you can download (for free), it was initially design to pose Lara models for making fanarst, but alot of original characters from other games are also available. You can have a look at these & made study of how pros allocate polygons, mesh topology etc.

Follow the link to downlod XNALara.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=147100

 

[starseeker]

I will start making my main character next week. This is her outfit, which I posted in another thread before.
So excited to get started again in character making.

 

[DriedMangoes]

@starseeker, how long will it be until we see a launch / reveal trailer on YT?

Day 1.

 

[Z A C K]

@starseeker, how long will it be until we see a launch / reveal trailer on YT?

Day 1.

YT? Give him some credit man, his game will be first announced at an E3.

 

[starseeker]

It will be a long way before the first video.

I have gone back to my favorite character modeling.

Discovered some new tricks & features in Zbrush, like Zremesh, that generate good topology from a high poly model.
Quite a game changer in character modeling/scrupting workflow.

Anyway, progress on the character modeling. Still a long way, especially the pants, but I am fairly happy so far.

 

[Godsmack]

I need to play with that Zremesher as well. While it won't make a bit of difference in game since it's 2d, it will make the rendering/modeling/animating/whatever process a bit less system hogging when I import to Modo.

 

[Plainview]

Great thread.

 

[de3d1]

This is some art from an overhead game we've been building in unity for a couple years now, it's about the vampire's struggle to maintain control over humanity and the Lycans after centuries of dominance. The vampire clans finally unite after eons of squabbling.

You choose a character from a clan:

Sarrel Clan

Devos(lycan hunters)

Oryicon(ancient descendants) usually have at least partial elder blood. Arcasin below is actually part human and elder vampire.

Looking for an environmental artist btw

 

[Godsmack]

I really like that picture.

 

[Z A C K]

This is some art from an overhead game we've been building in unity for a couple years now, it's about the vampire's struggle to maintain control over humanity and the Lycans after centuries of dominance. The vampire clans finally unite after eons of squabbling.

You choose a character from a clan:

Sarrel Clan

Devos(lycan hunters)

Oryicon(ancient descendants) usually have at least partial elder blood. Arcasin below is actually part human and elder vampire.

Looking for an environmental artist btw

Very nice stuff. While I can't be your artist, I will say I would play this game solely based on the pics.