UnionVGF Indie Game developers (or thinking about becoming one) corner

It will be a long way before the first video.

I have gone back to my favorite character modeling.

Discovered some new tricks & features in Zbrush, like Zremesh, that generate good topology from a high poly model.
Quite a game changer in character modeling/scrupting workflow.

Anyway, progress on the character modeling. Still a long way, especially the pants, but I am fairly happy so far.
CaptureAliceWIP01_zps8eb9b2ea.jpg


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Wow, I did look at Zbrush and I specially like the polypaint tool there, but a bit high in price.

Just one question is it much harder to use then blender ? If it is about same this may be something I`m gone pick up.
 
Zbrush is in fact the most value software I even bought. I bought it when it was version 1.2 at $500, & have free upgrade even since. Its now version 4.6. The tech support is also top notch.

However, Zbrush shouldn't be used as standalone, but as a part of a pipeline. If you are not doing high polygon models (for Normal map creation), then probably it may not be need. However for high detail work, I do not think there is any competition.

Note that GoZ (a game changing feature), which allow you to switch between a 3D software & Zbrush, have no Blender support as of this writing. Though there is an unofficial GoB for blender.


ZRemesher (Basically allow you to reverse engineering, creating workable & clean topology on the fly from a high poly model, like most Zbrush features, there are a lot of controls to get the desired result you wanted)


GoZ


ZApplink (Photoshop) allow 3D painting in Photoshop


UVmaster (super fast & clean UV mapping. After I learn this, I have use it often in my work)
 
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This is some art from an overhead game we've been building in unity for a couple years now, it's about the vampire's struggle to maintain control over humanity and the Lycans after centuries of dominance. The vampire clans finally unite after eons of squabbling.




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You choose a character from a clan:

Sarrel Clan
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Devos(lycan hunters)
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Oryicon(ancient descendants) usually have at least partial elder blood. Arcasin below is actually part human and elder vampire.

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Looking for an environmental artist btw :tounge:
These concept arts are sick!
 
Then used some hours on making hand in blender, got too many triangles, all of sudden had over 2000 and for a character with max limit 5000 that is a bit too much, gone go delete vertices and with "F" create new faces :

LVRrKrN.jpg
eE0rUJw.jpg
A9GeEIq.jpg


Edit: I think that is the best I can get, took me time to figure out how merge faces with "ctrl X", but first I used decimate to reduce number of triangles.
Now have a bit more than 800 triangles and I think that is about where it should be, 1600 on hands and under 1000 on head, arms and legs should not take too much, upper body should neither sow I think should be able to keep around the 5000 limit.

07fu5Mi.jpg
 
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Don`t gone become all perfect, I see could have done more with head, shape is off some there.

ANedw2r.jpg


Edit:

4Y4Q1ta.jpg


Back seems to become good, have 3000 triangles and increasing, now for front and soon mesh for upper body is done.
 
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You should spread out loop of the finger joint. they are too close at the moment. Fingers are harder to model than people think. Just be patient. Also look at how others work on the topology. You get better with expereince also.

Anyway, here is an update. The coat took me a while. Its harder than it looks but the base mesh is almost done. Once UVed, I will send to Zbrush for high level detailing.
CaptureAliceWIP03_zpsb1a2ed0c.jpg
 
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Here are some good example. You can find more via 'Low Poly hand' google image search.

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Thanks will look at that yes.
 
CaptureAliceWIP04_zps3fa0669b.jpg

Work in progress for the coat. Note the very 'pixelated' wrinkles at the torso. There is insufficient polygon density to make good wrinkles. It will required a few more subdivision to get all the nice details out, but I like to maximize what I can detailed do for a subdivision level before I moved to the next.
 
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You don't actually control the characters in your game starseeker, right? It's more of just a first person thing?
 
Yes.
First person adventure game, perspective is similar to 'Gone Home'
She will appear in some stills & panning shots, as well as pomotion for the game I guess. Also she could be used as template for slideshow cutscene. I am not a very good 2D artist, so having a full 3D model help me paint in 2D better (I can use the 3D model as pose reference).

I figure while you are 1st person, its important to able to visualize the main character look, for a story driven game.

This is not unlike how Bungie did with Master chief.
 
Small update. More detailing. Character are fun, but required just more work compare to other 3D asserts.

I am happy though to pick up even more new tricks that I didn't thought was maybe possible or some simple in Zbrush using GoZ tool. This GoZ is a true game changer.

CaptureAliceWIP05_zps2ea5aea3.jpg


Anyway, less work on 3D next month as I will finally made the (long awaited) move to UE4. Its both exciting & taunting, but I think I will do fine. I love technical work, love creative work, & love making arts (mainly 3D) , & very little combine the 3 like making a game.

More on UE4 soon. So excited. Goto start a plan for learning UE4, with focus on areas that will be useful in my game. (for instance, I will not focus on platforming games, or AI that much, not yet)
 
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Probably last update on the character before a break to learn UE4.

CaptureAliceWIP06_zpsce163ba3.jpg
 
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So, what does UE4 do exactly? Does it hold all the game's programming itself, and you have to learn code? Do you just import models from zbrush or are you using another program first?

I'm enjoying working with 3d so far. Though I will still be using a 2d engine with Construct 2. Of course, I always want to keep an open mind for future games if I want to use another engine.
 
Would anyone be up for doing a UGF unity game done by the us? We could get constant input by the community here.

I'm certain we have the talent here to pool from.
 
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So, what does UE4 do exactly? Does it hold all the game's programming itself, and you have to learn code? Do you just import models from zbrush or are you using another program first?

I'm enjoying working with 3d so far. Though I will still be using a 2d engine with Construct 2. Of course, I always want to keep an open mind for future games if I want to use another engine.

You can write code (C++), as well as using their visual programming known as Blueprint (Blueprint cover more than programming), & probably a combination of both. I can't say much as I do not have UE4.
In my opinion, the best efficiency is achieve by using the best tools available, & not trying to achieve the target solely using the tools you are comfortable with. You will be left somewhat handicap if you solely use Programming or Visual programming. Its like playing soccer but you can only use one footed, or basketball when you can do layout using only one arm.

I spend last 2 months learning Unreal script (its outdated but a lot of knowledge can be transfer to UE4) to get a basic of game programming in Unreal environment, at the same time revise on C++(it will be painful to return to C++ as Unreal script is so much simpler)

Having said that, my focus will be on visual programming using Blueprint, as
1) Programmers will not want to hear this, but I think visual programming will be the future.
2) I think its more logically, easier to read by another person, & less prom to error.
3) It will be easier to reuse.
4) No to mention you can store codes in isolated Blueprint block (I think, you can for sure do so in its predecessor the Kismet) , because, there are something that are still better, or easier with code, like mathematical formulas or some logic sequence.
5) As an engineer, I much prefer something visual. , like those logic gates & robotic back in school days.

I will share more I go deeper. I think you can certainly create a game with just visual programming, but it pays to know programming in case there are jobs better suite to code. I do not think you need to know the very fancy stuff or have complete understanding of making a game from the ground using code. A decent understanding of function, operators, class, & heritage, pointers, arrays should suffice for most parts. At least with Unreal script, it didn't go far from what I listed above.

But here is where you can learn more about blueprint.
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/what-can-you-do-with-blueprints

Back to Zbrush, & 3D, now this topic I can explain more. Zbrush is a very powerful 3D program, & capable of doing things you thought impossible just only a while back. However, its not a complete 3D package. One, it cannot export file as FBX format, (that is the main standard for UE4 & presumably Unity. Not sure about construct), second, at least for me, its very hard to make low poly meshes suitable for game from start to finished. At some point, you will probably need a 3D modeling package like Maya, 3DMax, or Blender, especially for non organic shape objects, like the laptop & printer I posted earlier.
It also do not support Skeleton rig for gaming. You do can pose, & even create a skeleton structure, but the skeleton structure is a train wreak at the moment ( & like I mention, cannot be exported).

Oh, & Zbrush Map transfer (like normal) are pretty basic, & limited. Transfer between a high level poly & low poly version of the same model are mostly ok, but transfer between 2 different models, you can do it, but its not worth the trouble as it required a workaround, & you better off using a 3rd party software like xNormal(free), or a 3D package like Maya. Not a big deal though, as XNormal is free & more control.
 
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Damn, I hate learning new stuff on a deadline. It's awesome for the future, but I'm working on a model, getting all the maps I need, and it's just been a freaking weeklong marathon with my overall schedule. Luckily I'm close to being done with that part, rigging shouldn't be too bad, it's a robot model. The only tricky part is being able to rig the wheels on a robot in conjunction with the rest of the joints. Actually, it's a question I'm hoping someone can answer. What I was going to do is rig the top and parent controls for the wheels to the hips and universal control, but I'm not sure if that'll mess up this model for the game (first time I've worked on 3D rig for a game). My second option was to put a joint in each wheel and simply have that joint connected. If this were a film, I'd animate this simple robot character with locators parented to the model and use the outliner within maya to grab each of them.
 

Thanks. I bought Modo recently when it was on sale for half off. I choose that as my 3d program because I found it intuitive, and it seemed liked by artists. I have gotten the basics down, but am going to follow some more tutorials this week to finish my training.

Modo exports to fbx. I just checked. It seems a lot of Maya users are making the switch to it. For the price, it was way cheaper and still very capable. It was important to me to find a program that clicked with me. I chose the one that I had the easiest time using.

To export to Construct 2, I simply save the rendered image as a transparent png with no background. I usually fiddle with it in Photoshop first. I then upload the images to a sprite which supports multiple frames (for animation or just different appearances). Nothing in Construct 2 is actually 3d. It is strictly a 2d engine at this point.

While I haven't really had to write any code while using Construct 2, I have had to do a lot with game logic. My entire level is built with arrays for example. It is programmed to place the ground and wall tiles in a way that makes an interesting layout, and then it does a bitwise check that I set up to set each wall piece to the correct animation frame. There are plenty of other things I've had to do as well. I've had to brush up on some math and program a formula to reverse a percentage to make my portraits fill with blood just like old games like Baldur's Gate.

I think visual programming is becoming more and more popular because it lets you get a better idea of what's going on. It makes it easier to organize things and troubleshoot. I don't know how fast it is to write code, but Construct 2 has been advertised a quick way of creating mock up games in a addition to using it to make full games, so maybe it is faster. I certainly have done quite a bit. I mean creating an action RPG that is turn-based is no easy feat, and I have a pretty good system going so far.
 
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Pro-texture tip: When you're looking to quickly fill in texture colors over seams, then try using a free Flaming Pear plug-in called Solidify. It's a time saver for sure and can benefit anybody be it games, app, or film. It does it all in one go.
 
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Solidify is a Photoshop plug-in just so its clear to others (because I was wondering for which software was it for)

Yap, its new for me, just downloaded it, & will check out later. Thanks. :)

Oh, by the way, my Unreal Engine 4 journey starts today. Oh yeah, downloading now...

Edit: Found a tutorial on Solidify
 
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Damn, I hate learning new stuff on a deadline. It's awesome for the future, but I'm working on a model, getting all the maps I need, and it's just been a freaking weeklong marathon with my overall schedule. Luckily I'm close to being done with that part, rigging shouldn't be too bad, it's a robot model. The only tricky part is being able to rig the wheels on a robot in conjunction with the rest of the joints. Actually, it's a question I'm hoping someone can answer. What I was going to do is rig the top and parent controls for the wheels to the hips and universal control, but I'm not sure if that'll mess up this model for the game (first time I've worked on 3D rig for a game). My second option was to put a joint in each wheel and simply have that joint connected. If this were a film, I'd animate this simple robot character with locators parented to the model and use the outliner within maya to grab each of them.
A picture may be helpful, though I am not expert in rigging for game. In fact I have no idea. That's something I need to pick up, but I have no interactable characters in the game so its not high on my priority list.

Hang in there. It will come good, I am sure.
 
Would anyone be up for doing a UGF unity game done by the us? We could get constant input by the community here.

I'm certain we have the talent here to pool from.
That's an interesting proposition, good luck.

I need to concentration on my first game, (beside that I am no talent), so not possible in the moment, thought I can help in small parts (when possible).
 
That's an interesting proposition, good luck.

I need to concentration on my first game, (beside that I am no talent), so not possible in the moment, thought I can help in small parts (when possible).

Yea I wouldn't be able to fully commit, i have a project that I'm focusing on, but a couple hours a week from all of us could add up to something cool if we manage it.
 
Damn, I hate learning new stuff on a deadline. It's awesome for the future, but I'm working on a model, getting all the maps I need, and it's just been a freaking weeklong marathon with my overall schedule. Luckily I'm close to being done with that part, rigging shouldn't be too bad, it's a robot model. The only tricky part is being able to rig the wheels on a robot in conjunction with the rest of the joints. Actually, it's a question I'm hoping someone can answer. What I was going to do is rig the top and parent controls for the wheels to the hips and universal control, but I'm not sure if that'll mess up this model for the game (first time I've worked on 3D rig for a game). My second option was to put a joint in each wheel and simply have that joint connected. If this were a film, I'd animate this simple robot character with locators parented to the model and use the outliner within maya to grab each of them.

Hmm, can you save the file and make a backup for testing purposes? If it's something that could mess things up, maybe you could save before you do it, and then just go for it. Is the wheel like a car tire or more like a tank track? If you maybe you could find a tutorial for rigging a similar apparatus that you could apply to your model. There are so many tutorials out there, I'd be surprised if you could not find any. I only know how to use my program (Modo), and even then I'm still learning, but it has a setup mode to adjust parenting and making changes. If you save a backup file right before, you could simply load that old save. Anyway, I would need to know more before I could offer any more advice, and even then I think a tutorial on rigging a similar device would answer your questions better than I could at this point.

Yea I wouldn't be able to fully commit, i have a project that I'm focusing on, but a couple hours a week from all of us could add up to something cool if we manage it.

Yeah, if I wasn't so focused on this, I might have been able to. I really need to get my project done without distractions. I have a tendency to want something done right, so I keep working at it until it is good. I am also learning a bunch of stuff right now too, so my time is divided. I am already behind my original schedule. I don't want to say I'll do something and not be able to deliver. Maybe in a few months once I am faster with these programs I'll be able to contribute.
 
Would anyone be up for doing a UGF unity game done by the us? We could get constant input by the community here.

I'm certain we have the talent here to pool from.

Well when it comes to scripting I may help (doing visual scripting in unity with use of Playmaker asset), sow far when it comes to models I have very much to learn.

Dropbox maybe a good way to share the project between us all : https://www.dropbox.com/
 
Good luck guys.

Some updates:
Since I got ue4, I have been working hard to pick up speed. Overall impression is good. Since I used UDK for a while, getting around in the new UE4 UI is not too bad.

The UI is much better now, more user friendly & modern. It started with more templates. In the old UDK, it default to first person shooter & required a fair bit of coding to make into 3rd person, top down or side strolling. Now you can start with most of the standard camera settings.
You can tell UE4 is build from the ground up to be developer ( indies, newbie) friendly. UDK, while not bad, feel like an afterthought. Well it was, it was only available a few years later to the public (in 2009), before that, only available to major development houses.

Of course the visual fidelity of the scene is much higher than UDK, ie much better light rendering, the new materials, reflections etc. I hope to put up my bathroom scene soon, to test it, stay tune. So far I only test the size of the character, & she fits just nice.

Talking about size. Finally they fixed the weird Unreal unit size used in UDK (in UDK, they used a weird scale value to real world unit, like 1.28cm: 1 unreal unit or something) to a more conventional 1uu:1cm, but& you are free to change it should you wished to (an option not available in UDK).

Also the weird grid system which used power of 2 (1, 2, 4, 8, 16) in UDK have been replace with more conventional (1, 5, 10, 50, 100 etc). It may not seems a lot but its a time saver as grid system is critical to modular design (where meshed are like lego), & you can only snap to a grid.

Than there is the marketplace. Although still limited in contents, Most of the projects are available to download for free. You can use it as template, for learning, & even use the asserts inside it in your own projects. Already I have found some useful materials & 3D asserts that I can use in my game from some of the project I downloaded.

The documentation/guides/tutorials are also well done, & easy to follow. Pretty impressive consider how young UE4 is.
The problem when learning a new software was where to start.

More impression coming. There is one major negative though, but no fault of Epic, which is that UE4 required quite a bit of a machine to run. The minimal spec they recommended did not came out of nowhere. I have issue already running decent frame rate on some of the sample scene, like the science fiction corridor in the editor posted here a while ago in UnionVGF.

Its not a big issue now, when learning the UI, Blueprints (visual programming), material editing, but I will be in slowville when I start putting up a decent scene, so I will be looking to upgrade to a more powerful rig soon.
 
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I just realize Blender have sculpting tools, maybe not the same level as Zbrush or mudboy, but decent. Maya didn't even have a sculpting tools (well it has, but really basic (think MS paint of painting software) & have polygon limits)

Also, I checked Mojo, & the price isn't attractive for me at all. But for those interested, heres the link.
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/modo/?gclid=CPqJtqDAzMACFY_ItAod9BsApA

Also a lack of support (similar with Blender) of GoZ (Zbrush) is a downer.

But I need a decision soon, as Maya is just too expensive. I need to decide to stick to it (which I am of high efficiency already) for commercial use, or pick up something cheaper like Blender (but lose a few months time due to learning).

The cheaper Maya Lit version is a smack in the face, with its much limited features, lack of proper rendering & poly limit on export as FBX. I was considering it, until I heard about the 65K poly limit.

Edit: Change background of Zbrush. Feel so much better now. I much preferred brighter colors.
CaptureAliceWIP07_zps07708848.jpg
 
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Modo has decent sculpting tools as well. In fact, I am hard pressed to find reasons to use Zbrush, but I still like it.

I bought Modo when it was half off, so it was about on par price wise with Maya Lt. I didn't like the limitations of Maya Lt either, no rendering just sucked. I like to render to test how things look, and to export it to my game engine, I need a good renderer, so I got Modo.

I guess no Goz with Modo is kind of a letdown, but I have not had trouble importing things from zbrush. In fact, a lot of the building and sculpting can be done in Modo. I recommend you try it out at least. It does a good job of being easy to figure out and fast to turn out decent 3d models.

I tried out some other programs, but they were either way too expensive or just didn't appeal to me. So, for that, I give Modo a high recommendation. Of course, I also bought it for half price. I don't know when it will go on sale again.

Honestly, with a subscription to Digital Tutors, I'm picking up modeling in Modo quite fast. I can already do most of what I need. I am just following a few more tutorials and learning some tips and tricks to make the process easier at this point, and to further learn the in's and out's of the program.

Oh, and I also picked up ACS for Modo since it was on sale as well. It is listed under the kits. It's designed to make animating and rigging faster.
 
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