Official Thread XBOX Hardware

My Current Console Is....


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So, it's pretty clear that there will be an S and X again with Scarlett/Xbox Two. I personally don't think that this is a bad idea, per say.

What's a bit confusing though, is how their messaging from 2 years ago about how the classic console generations would be going away now seems like they completely changed their minds on that. I mean, I totally expected the X to just replace the S and become the bottom tier. Now it seems more like Xbox One (X or S) will just get pushed to the background completely, and will probably be on life support 2-3 years from now. I guess that's progress, though. I'm sure that this is what some people here wanted anyway, for them to just break away with a completely new gen, not tied to Xbox One. This also makes me think that there's definitely more to these 2 consoles than what we expect.
 
So, it's pretty clear that there will be an S and X again with Scarlett/Xbox Two. I personally don't think that this is a bad idea, per say.

What's a bit confusing though, is how their messaging from 2 years ago about how the classic console generations would be going away now seems like they completely changed their minds on that. I mean, I totally expected the X to just replace the S and become the bottom tier. Now it seems more like Xbox One (X or S) will just get pushed to the background completely, and will probably be on life support 2-3 years from now. I guess that's progress, though. I'm sure that this is what some people here wanted anyway, for them to just break away with a completely new gen, not tied to Xbox One. This also makes me think that there's definitely more to these 2 consoles than what we expect.

From what I’ve read, this is mainly because of the ‘guts’ of the X and S. The jaguar cores are already pretty old, so it makes no sense to keep trying to make them when the entire industry will leave them behind.

The difficulty will be on the software side, as far as getting games to work between all supported systems.

But hey, MS is a software company, and they’ve already done that quite well with all the BC stuff. ‘No one left behind’ and all that :)
 
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If those leaked Scarlet specs are real they sound pretty damned nice.
 
If those leaked Scarlet specs are real they sound pretty damned nice.

If those specs are true will probably be the most powerful next gen console. I said Microsoft wasn't going to lose the power crown at all costs.
This pretty much confirms it.
 
If those specs are true will probably be the most powerful next gen console. I said Microsoft wasn't going to lose the power crown at all costs.
This pretty much confirms it.

It may well be but we don't know that for sure, either way it's encouraging to know that both consoles are going to be very powerful.
 
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Surprised that Lockhart is less TF than the X. But I guess if it’s priced nice, it could be a good option for a lot of people.

Dealer discusses this in the vid I posted if you want more details, but as mb1025
said, with Navi involved, you can get far more out of a TF than before.

It will end up being right around a 1X. Will easily do 1080/1440p at 60 FPS.

And maybe additional assets in the future from XCloud..?
 
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I’m also wondering what MS does now. I’m assuming this was a controlled leak to build hype.

Maybe they’ll have a dedicated reveal early next year...? Any thoughts?
 
Maybe they’ll have a dedicated reveal early next year...? Any thoughts?

Well you posted:

53WCKto.png
 
How bad would it be if only the weaker console launched in 2020 and the more powerful one launches in fall of 2021?
 
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Well you posted:

True! I wasn’t sure if he was referring to what’s been ‘leaked’ though. I mean I know it’s not official, but it was obviously planned.

At this point why wait for an official reveal? Unless they are going to do it like the OG X1 reveal, and have an entire show?

Or maybe they drop a new game trailer at the game awards this week, showcasing some of the assets?
 
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Good info...I guess the cpu is what makes the difference vs one X?
Would be interesting to see a Lockhart vs One X on current gen games comparison...
Just realised someone might've already handled this question earlier in the thread, but I'll be honest and say that I might've skipped a few posts/ pages...
 
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Also worth noting, just like Lockhart’s 4 TF will carry more weight and act more like the way 6 currently acts, then we can say the same for Anaconda’s supposed 12....it can potentially act more like... :banana:

*potentially*
 
A nice write-up by @Klobrille


If you are interested, read my analysis on the Lockhart/Anaconda situation.
There seems to be a certain misconception going around on what Lockhart will actually be. I see people acting like as if Lockhart is meant to be a toaster playing videogames - and this couldn't be any more wrong.

Lockhart will be a true next generation console with next generational components. Both devices - if this is really what they'll go with in less than a year from now (and yes, despite the Kotaku article, this is still an *if*) - Anaconda and Lockhart, will share the same solutions for CPU, memory and SSD. Especially the CPU area will be incredibly important for next generation consoles. Zen 2 will allow not only higher framerates here, but also better physics, worlds that are filled with more life, more characters on screen, better AI, more precise simulation. Simply said: it will allow *more*. In combination with incredibly fast SSD and memory solutions, this will allow devs to build next generation experiences without holding back.

When looking at scalability, doing so via GPU and resolution seems like the easiest and most obvious solution. Rendering games at 4K requires a lot of resources. Offering a console *option* that scales back on resolution but stays true on every other aspects of a game is a no-brainer in an age of dynamic resolution methods, ML upscaling, intelligent sharpening filters etc. It allows to bring down the price on that console, which might also be releant for xCloud in future, as resources mean everything in the datacenters just as much. You don't need to only have Anaconda's sitting there in a few years when many people only stream to max. 1080p devices anyway (mobile).

I keep reading goal post arguments that Lockhart might "hold next generation" back. This lacks any rationale and doesn't mirror the situation of gaming ... At all. First and foremost: why do we simply ignore that every single Xbox first-party game will still come to PC? Yesterday, today and in future? Minimum requirements to play certain games on PC will be lower than Lockhart will ever be for many, many years to come. Xbox Game Studios are used to allow great scaling of their gams for so many years already, with their PC versions even being some of the best on the PC market these days. Scalability is important. I keep refering to my personal prime example here being Sea of Thieves. The game basically runs on a toaster, yet it looks absolutely incredible at 4K/60fps on a high-end rig. I would go even one step further and say that giving your developers the task to make your games scale great *profits* a "high-end" version as performance optimizations are happening for every kind of scale level.

Scalability on Lockhart is primarily meant to be done via GPU scaling. How does a GTX 980 hold back Remedy's Control on a RTX 2080 Ti and its next generation raytracing rendering? How does the original Xbox One GPU hold back one of the best-looking games available with Forza Horizon 4 played on a PC at 4K/60 Ultra? How does a Surface Laptop 3 GPU hold back Gears 5 on being the most-impressive looking HDR/60fps game on consoles this generation? I could go on and on. The answer will always be the same: it doesn't hold it back. Lockhart will not hold back anything as the components that will allow "next generation" experiences will be there. Just at lower resolutions and/or some graphical effect sliders set to a lower value.

Price matters so, so much. Some countries are more price sensitive than others, this is absolutely a fair comment to make. Thinking about Jimmy's mom here, who just wants to get her son the newest "FIFA for a new generation" or the "Fortnite next gen update", going into a Walmart and seeing a $399 console allowing this as well as a $499 one standing next to each other (the prices are just exemplary), Jimmy's mom doesn't have many reasons to not pick the cheaper one here. Both play the same games.
I think it's ironic we are on a "hardcore-gaming" forum here but all we focus on right now is Lockhart. An optional console that is not even aimed towards "us". The actual news should be: if Lockhart on the one end exists, so does Anaconda on the other end. And this is where this situation gets interesting. It would mean MS sticked with their original plan on not only offering the lowest price console on the one end, but more importantly on the other end also the best-performing device going into next-gen. Lockhart allows Anaconda to do ... More. After all, both are just two more options to get into the Xbox / Game Pass ecosystem.

The last point I want to add something to is the "confusion for the customer" argument. I don't know where this is suddenly coming from, but it's yet another example of something that completely ignores the industry itself, other industries, PC gaming or even ... This console generation. We are not talking about MS offering 20 different kind of SKUs here. We are talking about 2. *Two*. Something console gaming customers are used to since the release of PS4 Pro already - and something customers in pretty much *every other tech area* are used to for many, many years already, with many more options that just two. There are Pro/Plus/S/Super/Light/Basic/Core versions everywhere. The tech industry has learned that you need to offer *options* to reach a broader pool of customers. And if the differentiation is as easy as it is supposed to be here - offering TWO options on both price/performance ends - I simply think talking about "confusion" here seems very much disconnected from reality. I'll totally admit one thing on this one though: Xbox *needs* to get the naming right. They shouldn't do any experiments here. Naming needs to be easy and on-point. No doubt about that.

If you followed my comments on this whole topic a bit in the past, you'll know that I'm a proponent for the Xbox two SKU strategy. Because the truth is: both Nintendo and Playstation have a much more dominant mind-share and more promiment brands than Xbox. That's simply part of the truth and that is totally fine. You just need to have a plan on how to deal with that. And going into next-gen with one device that only equals PS5 in both price and performance will not do much for your brand. It's as easy as that. You need to do things differently. And offering options left and right is something the Xbox brand is doing industry-leading moves in since Phil became the Head of Xbox. Xbox needs and wants to become a brand that stands for diversity and options in games, hardware and services.

Please keep in mind this post is built on the foundation that the Lockhart/Anaconda roadmap is happenig in 2020. I can't guarantee that - and I won't. But not doing it this way would be a wasted opportunity for Xbox, its community and more importantly its future.

- Klobrille
 
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i can only see Lockhart pleasing people if it’s a bar above the ps5 and the anaconda as a beast of a machine that we don’t deserve for another five years.

if MS can take an initial loss with GP, with their first party titles, than they can take another loss with releasing an OP next gen console to get it into as many hands as possible. They may recoup some of said loss with xcloud and the rest with live and gamepass/gpu
 
i can only see Lockhart pleasing people if it’s a bar above the ps5 and the anaconda as a beast of a machine that we don’t deserve for another five years.

if MS can take an initial loss with GP, with their first party titles, than they can take another loss with releasing an OP next gen console to get it into as many hands as possible. They may recoup some of said loss with xcloud and the rest with live and gamepass/gpu

I'm sure they are releasing the most powerful console they can, it's not all about money. Yeah you can include more memory etc but CPU and GPU limits are about thermals and power consumption, it's not just about saving a buck. Back in the old days when the console parts were more specialized and they could do more with them sure but those days are long gone, tech doesn't move the way it used to and it takes a lot more power to get less of a jump.

I'm excited about potentially 12TF consoles but that's 3 years after the One X and only twice as powerful in the GPU department, in 4 years after the launch of the X1 they were able to get four and a half times the jump with the One X. I think there is a reason why Phil Spencer keeps talking up the CPU more than the GPU, the CPU is around 4x the performance of the One X while the GPU is about twice. That's still very good though and the CPU's were so far behind last time that this is probably a very balanced jump all things considered. When a game is made from the ground up for a new gen system it's going to look great, maybe a little less so when the design has to take several other consoles into account as has always been the case in the past but we'll see. Either way MS can't just buy a giant leap in tech if it just isn't possible in a console form factor, money can only do so much.
 
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Read this. Scarlett is sounding legit crazy in the power game. Then you add GamePass and Xcloud and next gen looking super spicy.
 
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So like I said it is a big nothing burger. Lockhart is going to scale and the CPU will have a bigger impact on ACTUAL gameplay.
With the weaker GPU it will run games at reduced settings. Nothing is going to hold Scarlett back.
Also as was pointed out the increase in CPU power is drastically bigger than the increase in GPU power...which is why developing for both Xbox consoles won't be an issue.
 
So like I said it is a big nothing burger. Lockhart is going to scale and the CPU will have a bigger impact on ACTUAL gameplay.
With the weaker GPU it will run games at reduced settings. Nothing is going to hold Scarlett back.
Also as was pointed out the increase in CPU power is drastically bigger than the increase in GPU power...which is why developing for both Xbox consoles won't be an issue.

Having to develop for multiple consoles always comes at a price, always has and always will especially when you are supposedly going to keep supporting all of your current gen machines as well as next gen for a long time to come. How big of an impact? nobody knows but you can't develop fully for Scarlett if the same game has to scale down to work on an X1S, there will have to be some compromises made. To me that's the bigger issue their insistence that they want to keep supporting the older hardware for a long time, that's going to do more to hold things back than lockhart.

Having to develop for the X1, X1X, Lockhart and Scarlett is going to spread things fairly thin. If they are going to want lockhart to be a thing they'd be better off shutting down support of the X1 family of consoles after all of it's currently announced games are released and quickly stop manufacturing them so any new customers can buy what is hopefully a $299 lockhart or a $499 scarlett. Retailers aren't going to want to have to make room for 5 xbox consoles anyway and MS doesn't need to keep making old machines, just let the inventory run out and focus totally on the new gen.
 
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