Pachter: Next Xbox and PS5 in 2020

[JinCA]

Sounds like a mighty fine innovation motivator to me. That's what we need. Them making efforts to improve in an attempt to woo customers. What we don't need, is for these companies to dominate. Complacency is not what we should want from these companies.


I'm not sure costs will increase at the same rate. They are getting closer and closer to methods used in pre-rendered CG, and tools continue to improve and make it easier to get better results faster and more naturally. The introduction of Zbrush/mudbox has skyrocketed model quality, and many things like trees and foliage have software that make it light-years faster to implement. Where you used to have to hand place every element, now they can "just" kinda "Paint" objects into the scene at any level of randomness they chose.

They really didn't innovate anything though, the X1 was just a basic new console with a kinect in the box, it's not like it brought anything new to gaming that wasn't around last gen. I get what you are saying about needing companies to innovate but they need to always make sure that they are giving people what they want vs telling them what they want and MS lost sight of that. Honestly I think all of this focus on VR that's happening is a waste of time and resources too, yeah they are trying something different but I doubt any of these companies will have long term success with these products. Gaming consoles don't need to be anything special, they just need to be as powerful as a company can afford to make them and capable of delivering a developers vision, anything else is just a bonus but should never be the focus.

 

[TDbank24]

They really didn't innovate anything though, the X1 was just a basic new console with a kinect in the box, it's not like it brought anything new to gaming that wasn't around last gen. I get what you are saying about needing companies to innovate but they need to always make sure that they are giving people what they want vs telling them what they want and MS lost sight of that. Honestly I think all of this focus on VR that's happening is a waste of time and resources too, yeah they are trying something different but I doubt any of these companies will have long term success with these products. Gaming consoles don't need to be anything special, they just need to be as powerful as a company can afford to make them and capable of delivering a developers vision, anything else is just a bonus but should never be the focus.

I don't know what else these companies can really innovate at this point and honestly, it's been mostly Microsoft bringing innovation to gaming over the years. Sony has had awesome games, but it's Microsoft pushing the envelope on features. This gen really feels like an extension of last gen and it's going to be a shorter gen for sure. I'm guessing 2019 by the latest for when we see the PS5 and Xbox Two.

 

[de3d1]

I have said IF Nintendo handles the NX right,but you must of missed it.

I didn't miss anything. I'm just mocking your "IF" opinion. It's still way off. No console can give the ps4 a "run for its money" whether its "handled right" or not with a 2+ year headstart.

NO CHANCE.

 

[de3d1]

I do wonder how much growth potential MS sees with the Xbox overall, yeah it's the fastest selling Xbox to this point but let's not forget the first xbox wasn't exactly a success and the 360 started off with production issues and then ended up having a lot of bad press due to the RROD, it's not like the 360 came out of the gate firing on all cylinders. It took them basically 8 years to sell 80 million consoles, that's a moderate success not a major one, in comparison the second playstation hit 100 million in just over 5 years. They don't seem to be making any progress in parts of the world where they've struggled in the past., hell they aren't even sales leaders in the areas where they were pretty dominant last time around. That doesn't mean they aren't making any money but I just can't imagine they are happy with how things are going right now regardless of what they may say in a press release.

RROD rebuy sales were added to 360's total numbers, yet xbox one is exceeding it's numbers without real hardware issues. So it's actually selling many more consoles when you figure that in.

That was all the rage last gen, "look at all those 360 rebuys because of RROD, that's the only reason they are doing decent in sales"

 

[JinCA]

RROD rebuy sales were added to 360's total numbers, yet xbox one is exceeding it's numbers without real hardware issues. So it's actually selling many more consoles when you figure that in.

That was all the rage last gen, "look at all those 360 rebuys because of RROD, that's the only reason they are doing decent in sales"

That was a bunch of BS, MS was replacing the consoles for free, people just said that to try to make the 360 sound like a piece of junk.

 

[TeKPhaN]

I didn't miss anything. I'm just mocking your "IF" opinion. It's still way off. No console can give the ps4 a "run for its money" whether its "handled right" or not with a 2+ year headstart.

NO CHANCE.

Depends on how NX is handled as one of the possibilities is it being able to be upgraded,hence making it a competitor to both the ps4 and ps5.

 

[de3d1]

Depends on how NX is handled.

No. It doesn't matter. The ps4 will only continue to get more popular. NX has no chance at beating the most popular console ever with a 2+ year headstart.

Stop.

 

[JinCA]

I have to agree NX won't surpass PS4 at this point, Nintendo could make up for the WiiU if they finally decide to compete when it comes to power and are able to bring 3rd parties back in the loop. The more they try to make their console "different" the harder it's going to be to get 3rd party support, nobody is going to build games from the ground up for their console if they have some unique kind of control set up that can't be ported to the other consoles. The best thing for them to do is to bring out a console that's more powerful than the PS4 with a high quality traditional controller, let their first party games be the thing that separates them from the others while still getting 3rd party support by making it easy to port games to their machine at a higher quality that either PS4 or X1 are capable of.

 

[TeKPhaN]

NX Rumors have it launching mid gen with a possible next gen upgrade.
Id say anything is possible.

 

[de3d1]

NX Rumors have it launching mid gen with a possible next gen upgrade.
Id say anything is possible.

Name a single top selling home console in the top 10 that had a hardware upgrade. There isn't one, and even then you're not catching THE top selling console with a +40 million head start.

Makes zero sense even if it is true. Also, link this rumor you speak of, I searched and nothing came up for me.

 

[de3d1]

I'm not sure how difficult or expensive it would be to get the NX to be more powerful than the xb1 and ps4 combined? They're both extremely underpowered so maybe its possible.

Anyway, I think that would be a great tag line for Nintendo at conferences and events to say "more powerful than xb1 and ps4 combined" even if its close to that power.

As gamers, we all know that STILL isn't powerful, but it would be something that works on many uneducated people's minds. It's like saying the ps4 is 40% more powerful than xb1 when they're are PCs 300% more powerful than ps4. It only works on casuals though.

 

[Troublegum]

I'm not sure how difficult or expensive it would be to get the NX to be more powerful than the xb1 and ps4 combined? They're both extremely underpowered so maybe its possible.

Anyway, I think that would be a great tag line for Nintendo at conferences and events to say "more powerful than xb1 and ps4 combined" even if its close to that power.

There is no chance of this happening, even with a smaller process die shrink. You would be talking a hot 3+ TFLOP GPU, very high bandwidth of large memory pool and power hungry CPU cores, which is not the sort of design philosophy Nintendo has on silicon.

They will likely use a System on chip for the CPU and GPU rather than separate parts. They were moving towards this with the Wii U's MCM (multi chip module) which is a halfway house before you get to a fully integrated chip containing everything.

People bang on about Xb1 and PS4 being weak and compared to discrete PC parts they are. They should be compared to integrated CPU + GPU combos, at launch they were the two most powerful SOCs in the world. Even today, AMD doesn't have a PC APU that can match XB1's graphics performance. Intel actually is a little closer with Iris Pro 6200 GPU on its Skylake chips but even these fall short of current gen consoles despite destroying them on CPU power.

I could see Nintendo targeting XB1 or thereabouts.

 

[de3d1]

There is no chance of this happening, even with a smaller process die shrink. You would be talking a hot 3+ TFLOP GPU, very high bandwidth of large memory pool and power hungry CPU cores, which is not the sort of design philosophy Nintendo has on silicon.

They will likely use a System on chip for the CPU and GPU rather than separate parts. They were moving towards this with the Wii U's MCM (multi chip module) which is a halfway house before you get to a fully integrated chip containing everything.

People bang on about Xb1 and PS4 being weak and compared to discrete PC parts they are. They should be compared to integrated CPU + GPU combos, at launch they were the two most powerful SOCs in the world. Even today, AMD doesn't have a PC APU that can match XB1's graphics performance. Intel actually is a little closer with Iris Pro 6200 GPU on its Skylake chips but even these fall short of current gen consoles despite destroying them on CPU power.

I could see Nintendo targeting XB1 or thereabouts.

But But rumors bro...



"Nintendo News" claims to have an insider with the unfinalized specifications of Nintendo's new console.

• GPGPU: Custom Radeon HD RX 200 GPU CODENAME LADY (2816 shaders @ 960 MHz, 4.60 TFLOP/s, Fillrates: 60.6 Gpixel/s, 170 Gtexel/s)
• CPU: IBM 64-Bit Custom POWER 8-Based IBM 8-Core Processor CODENAME JUMPMAN (2.2 GHz, Shared 6 MB L4 cache)
• Co-CPU: IBM PowerPC 750-based 1.24 GHz Tri-Core Co-Processor CODENAME HAMMER
• MEMORY: 4 Gigabytes of Unified DDR4 SDRAM CODENAMED KONG, 2 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz (12.8 GB/s) On Die CODENAMED BARREL

If true, this would put the NX a stones throw away from an R9 390 and far ahead of the PS4/Xbox One! RAM setup is curious, but if that shader count doesn't bring in 3rd party support I don't know what will!

Source:

Nintendo "Fusion" from Nintendo News



http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/nintendo-nx-46-tflops-32593554/

btw, I don't limit these consoles power versus PCs in a category, I just see their performance, and rarely can either console manage 1080p 60fps unless the game looks last gen, whereas PCs crush those benchmarks. That's all that matters to me.

 

[Troublegum]

But But rumors bro...



"Nintendo News" claims to have an insider with the unfinalized specifications of Nintendo's new console.

• GPGPU: Custom Radeon HD RX 200 GPU CODENAME LADY (2816 shaders @ 960 MHz, 4.60 TFLOP/s, Fillrates: 60.6 Gpixel/s, 170 Gtexel/s)
• CPU: IBM 64-Bit Custom POWER 8-Based IBM 8-Core Processor CODENAME JUMPMAN (2.2 GHz, Shared 6 MB L4 cache)
• Co-CPU: IBM PowerPC 750-based 1.24 GHz Tri-Core Co-Processor CODENAME HAMMER
• MEMORY: 4 Gigabytes of Unified DDR4 SDRAM CODENAMED KONG, 2 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz (12.8 GB/s) On Die CODENAMED BARREL

If true, this would put the NX a stones throw away from an R9 390 and far ahead of the PS4/Xbox One! RAM setup is curious, but if that shader count doesn't bring in 3rd party support I don't know what will!

Source:

Nintendo "Fusion" from Nintendo News



http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/nintendo-nx-46-tflops-32593554/

btw, I don't limit these consoles power versus PCs in a category, I just see there performance, and rarely can either console manage 1080p 60fps unless the game looks last gen, whereas PCs crush those benchmarks. That's all that matters to me.

I like how everything a has a code name, even the generic memory chips!

What's the code name for the disc drive, Princess Zelda's slot?

 

[TeKPhaN]

Name a single top selling home console in the top 10 that had a hardware upgrade. There isn't one, and even then you're not catching THE top selling console with a +40 million head start.

Makes zero sense even if it is true. Also, link this rumor you speak of, I searched and nothing came up for me.

I posted the thread for Dno69.
You need to search better.

 

[Kassen]

There is no chance of this happening, even with a smaller process die shrink. You would be talking a hot 3+ TFLOP GPU, very high bandwidth of large memory pool and power hungry CPU cores, which is not the sort of design philosophy Nintendo has on silicon.

They will likely use a System on chip for the CPU and GPU rather than separate parts. They were moving towards this with the Wii U's MCM (multi chip module) which is a halfway house before you get to a fully integrated chip containing everything.

People bang on about Xb1 and PS4 being weak and compared to discrete PC parts they are. They should be compared to integrated CPU + GPU combos, at launch they were the two most powerful SOCs in the world. Even today, AMD doesn't have a PC APU that can match XB1's graphics performance. Intel actually is a little closer with Iris Pro 6200 GPU on its Skylake chips but even these fall short of current gen consoles despite destroying them on CPU power.

I could see Nintendo targeting XB1 or thereabouts.

Actually PC has the more powerful APUs. AMD A10s do Battlefield at 1080p on top of having much more powerful CPUs.

 

[de3d1]

I posted the thread for Dno69.
You need to search better.

It's a rumor, more time than I've already put into it is too much. There's about 20 rumors floating around, none of them will help it catch the ps4. Sorry.

 

[Troublegum]

Actually PC has the more powerful APUs. AMD A10s do Battlefield at 1080p on top of having much more powerful CPUs.

See, that's interesting as the GPUs themselves are less powerful. Does it hold 60 FPS? I think it's, what, 8 GCN cores on the A10-7870K? About an 886 GFLOP GPU at the APU's stock clock . I don't know how many ROPs it has but you would think it would be 8 or 16.

EDIT: http://products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-A-Series-Processors/AMD-A10-Series-APU-for-Desktops/A10-7870K-with-Radeon™-R7-Series/155 - It has half the ROPs of Xbox One.

The CPUs are of course waaaaay better, which can do a lot for maintaining a higher frame rate.

 

[TeKPhaN]

It's a rumor, more time than I've already put into it is too much. There's about 20 rumors floating around, none of them will help it catch the ps4. Sorry.

My point wasn't so much them catching the PS4 it was them having a shot @ the 2nd spot and riding that momentum into the next gen as the NX with or without upgrades could be a 2 gen console.

 

[de3d1]

My point wasn't so much them catching the PS4 it was them having a shot @ the 2nd spot

You must have altered your opinion in a few pages.

I see the mid gen release of the Nintendo(another winner) NX taking the number 2 spot from MS and giving Sony's PS4 a run.

 

[TeKPhaN]

There is no chance of this happening, even with a smaller process die shrink. You would be talking a hot 3+ TFLOP GPU, very high bandwidth of large memory pool and power hungry CPU cores, which is not the sort of design philosophy Nintendo has on silicon.

They will likely use a System on chip for the CPU and GPU rather than separate parts. They were moving towards this with the Wii U's MCM (multi chip module) which is a halfway house before you get to a fully integrated chip containing everything.

People bang on about Xb1 and PS4 being weak and compared to discrete PC parts they are. They should be compared to integrated CPU + GPU combos, at launch they were the two most powerful SOCs in the world. Even today, AMD doesn't have a PC APU that can match XB1's graphics performance. Intel actually is a little closer with Iris Pro 6200 GPU on its Skylake chips but even these fall short of current gen consoles despite destroying them on CPU power.

I could see Nintendo targeting XB1 or thereabouts.

Lol

 

[TeKPhaN]

You must have altered your opinion in a few pages.

Exactly giving them a run.
If the NX launched and outsold ps4 month to month or sold equally month 2 month...that wouldn't be giving the ps4 a run?

 

[de3d1]

Exactly giving them a run.
If the NX launched and outsold ps4 month to month or sold equally month 2 month...that wouldn't be giving the ps4 a run?

Nice try and spin from the spin doctor himself.

You specifically said the NX would take the #2 spot from xb1, then you went on to say it would "give the ps4 a run"

So, you were talking about month to month there? Every month the NX would have the #2 spot and "give the ps4 a run?"

LOL

 

[TeKPhaN]

Nice try and spin from the spin doctor himself.

You specifically said the NX would take the #2 spot from xb1, then you went on to say it would "give the ps4 a run"

So, you were talking about month to month there? Every month the NX would have the #2 spot and "give the ps4 a run?"

LOL

WTH? The month to month was vs the PS4 wth are you talking about?
A right marketed NX ie right specs,games and price will take the 2nd spot from XBO and give the PS4 a run.
How is this hard to understand? Are you saying a NX that would trade month to month sales with the PS4 isn't giving the PS4 a run?
lol

 

[Kassen]

See, that's interesting as the GPUs themselves are less powerful. Does it hold 60 FPS? I think it's, what, 8 GCN cores on the A10-7870K? About an 886 GFLOP GPU at the APU's stock clock . I don't know how many ROPs it has but you would think it would be 8 or 16.

EDIT: http://products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-A-Series-Processors/AMD-A10-Series-APU-for-Desktops/A10-7870K-with-Radeon™-R7-Series/155 - It has half the ROPs of Xbox One.

The CPUs are of course waaaaay better, which can do a lot for maintaining a higher frame rate.

AMDs desktop APUs don't hold anywhere near 1080p and 60fps. AMD A10 desktop APUs do Battlefield 4 at 1080p @ 28fps average at medium settings through the DX11 API I should have said, but for whatever the reason, that still puts it ahead of Xbox One and has it butting heads with what the PS4 can do despite the DirectX 11 overhead. And the graphics chips on these AMD A10 desktop APUs are running side-by-side with +4.0GHz non-laptop quad-core CPUs and are intentionally designed and priced as entry-level gamer products sold at like $140 MSRP. I don't know whether or not consoles have the better on-chip graphics for APUs, but I know doesn't stomp desktop APUs even with the desktop APUs being heavily CPU-oriented.

I'm not sure what Nintendo is cooking, but if we have AMD A10s floating around, then I think the PS4 can be surpassed if they just downclocked that 4.4GHz down a bit, given Nintendo doesn't go the cheap route again.

 

[de3d1]

WTH? The month to month was vs the PS4 wth are you talking about?
A right marketed NX ie right specs,games and price will take the 2nd spot from XBO and give the PS4 a run.
How is this hard to understand? Are you saying a NX that would trade month to month sales with the PS4 isn't giving the PS4 a run?
lol

Several people in this thread including myself have brought up how ridiculous your statement was about giving ps4 a run. These people and yourself acknowledged we were all talking about generation sales, you even went along with the conversation for several posts, quoting me and others.

Just one example

Yep, the NX(whatever the fvck it is) will give the ps4(on track to be the highest selling console ever) a run when the ps4 has a 2-3 year headstart.

See you went right along with that^^ no talk about month to month, in your very next post or others...

I have said IF Nintendo handles the NX right,but you must of missed it.

The only reason you altered your statement was when you realized yourself how ridiculous it was, NOW its month to month. Truth.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Several people in this thread including myself have brought up how ridiculous your statement was about giving ps4 a run. These people and yourself acknowledged we were all talking about generation sales, you even went along with the conversation for several posts, quoting me and others.

Just one example



See you went right along with that^^ no talk about month to month, in your very next post or others...




The only reason you altered your statement was when you realized yourself how ridiculous it was, NOW its month to month. Truth.

What does giving something a run mean?

 

[Kerosene31]

MS has already sliced the Sony sales gap completely. Now they are dead even. PS5: 0 XBwhatever: 0

 

[de3d1]

What does giving something a run mean?

We were all talking about generation. You were quoting posts left and right with 2 years head start in it, 40+ million head start in it left and right.

But somehow, you thought we were talking months? 40million headstart for a month?

Just admit it. You claim you always admit when you're wrong. It's no big.

 

[TeKPhaN]

We were all talking about generation. You were quoting posts left and right with 2 years head start in it, 40+ million head start in it left and right.

But somehow, you thought we were talking months? 40million headstart for a month?

Just admit it. You claim you always admit when you're wrong. It's no big.

AGAIN if the PS4 and the NX shared sales from month to month...that would be giving the PS4 a run.
I really don't see what's so hard to understand!?