Sony and MS working on PS4.5 and XboxOne.5?
- Thread starter DriedMangoes
- Start date
I'm interested in how these machines will be introduced, marketed, branded, communicated and positioned.
How long does the old machine stay on sale in the market for?
When does software compatibility for original XB1 and PS4 hardware end?
How is that controlled and communicated regarding the sale of physical game media?
The only way this works is if there is full backwards compatibility for the new model and full forward compatibility for the old model. Backwards compatibility is the easier part, it can be essentially forever due to a finite pool of software to support for a set fixed spec of the previous platform. Forwards compatibility is a really new area in the console space and much trickier as it is a constant moving target following future hardware revisions. At some point obsolescence must be forced on the oldest model to not restrict further progress. I would like to see how that will be managed.
How long does the old machine stay on sale in the market for?
When does software compatibility for original XB1 and PS4 hardware end?
How is that controlled and communicated regarding the sale of physical game media?
The only way this works is if there is full backwards compatibility for the new model and full forward compatibility for the old model. Backwards compatibility is the easier part, it can be essentially forever due to a finite pool of software to support for a set fixed spec of the previous platform. Forwards compatibility is a really new area in the console space and much trickier as it is a constant moving target following future hardware revisions. At some point obsolescence must be forced on the oldest model to not restrict further progress. I would like to see how that will be managed.
You know, I'm all for this change, but me too. I don't game on a TV, and right now Rare Replay is the only thing that makes me keep XB1. The moment 360 BC comes to PC, I'm going all in for it.
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It states 4K gaming which should set off a red flag. 4K gaming is power hungry and requires a beastly GPU to sustain stable performance and decent graphic quality levels. Even cards like R9 390X and GTX 980 aren't good enough for max settings at that resolution and need to be knocked down to medium. Which is where console games tend to come in graphics wise.
If you look at the PC side of things then the current consoles would need big upgrades to all core components. Which is not something I see happening anytime soon, and certainly not at a price point viable enough for most to jump in.
As for that, I've seen the original writer and commenters speculating that it would be targeted at a rather simplistic game designed specifically to run in 4K on the alleged PS4K... Which is actually even more worrying, but then again I've always thought this is what would happen when you run VR on a console.
Truly 4K capable hardware gets very close to being a full generational leap ahead of current consoles rather than an incremental step.
4K is four times the resolution of 1080p and the fill rate and memory bandwidth requirements for high end graphics at playable frame rates is huge.
4K is four times the resolution of 1080p and the fill rate and memory bandwidth requirements for high end graphics at playable frame rates is huge.
Exactly. Everything would need to be upgraded in the PS4.
You would at the minimum need to update the CPU to an Intel i5 or AMD FX 8350. Granted 4K gaming is nearly almost 80-90% GPU intensive the CPU still has to be up to snuff to prepare the frames for the GPU in time. If we are talking full visual fidelity VR then the requirements go up even more on the CPU side. A low powered APU isn't going to cut it.
At 4K memory bandwidth becomes the real hurdle. A top of the line GPU/GPUs is not a question...at 60fps 4K a top of the line set of GPUs is REQUIRED.
Until 1080ti/Titan Pascal
OFF TOPIC:
Honestly Val I think 30fps @ 4K will be easily attainable for Pascal/Polaris maxing out games.
I still think that you will need at least 2 of them in SLI/Crossfire to get a solid 60fps @ 4K though across the board.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Could dx12 alleviate some of these power constraints. Not for consoles specifically, but for 4K gaming in general.
Both companies see more money (shocking) in this. It's amazing the console business is still modeled after the early days of the first consoles. Assuming a 6 year guarantee of game support along with yearly hardware refreshes I can see myself upgrading about every 3 years. It's makes the 2 console buyer decision a bit interesting. Upgrade both at the same refreshes or stagger them out? It's a better and better model the more you think about it. Halo 5 and Uncharted are only for the new consoles. That PS3 and 360 in the corner.....tough luck.
DX12 is doing god's work for my R9 290, but not in the way that is directly connected to VR. DX12 basically removed all forms of stutters and short frame drops from my RoTR run, but it also tends to decrease max framerate a little bit. Since 4K/90fps seems like the gold standard for VR, DX12 alone is not enough. We still need hardwares way more powerful than what we have right now.
DX12 has the potential to improve performance. I'm using the word potential loosely.
Dx12 is really hit or miss right now. Microsoft is annoying me in that they are touting Dx12 as a miracle API that improves the distribution of workloads across CPU cores. Less CPU overhead meaning that it isn't being under-utilized like in alot of Dx11 games.
The problem is is that so far there really isn't any real performance improvement even at 4K. To date, only ONE game has seen improvements and that is due mainly to asynchronous compute rather than Dx12. In fact DX12 has seen performance DROP slightly in alot of games instead of improve.
Take a look at this to see what I mean....
Right now to me it just seems like Microsoft is touting DX12 as a means to get more widespread adoption to Windows 10 rather than offering any tangible performance benefits ATM. This may change as we get native Dx12 games and developers are able to harness the advantages, but right now it is a lackluster affair.
On AMD with hardware Async Compute you are going to see slightly more improvement. From what I gather and from talking with others the benefits are more for those with slower CPUs. If you are rocking an enthusiast grade CPU (i.e. hexacore/Octocore CPUs) your improvements will be negligible ATM.
BACK ON TOPIC: ANY MORE DX12/PC TALK TAKE IT TO THE DX12 THREAD OR PC DISCUSSION.
THANK YOU!
Also, upgradable consoles is a terrible idea.
Did I mention it is a terrible idea? Yeah it is.
THANK YOU!
Also, upgradable consoles is a terrible idea.
Did I mention it is a terrible idea? Yeah it is.
I wonder if the whole XBOX 1.5 and PS4.5 rumors are because they have seen or heard the specs of the next Nintendo machine and are proper worried of loosing market share to it?
Ok, they upgrade the hardware in the way it has been assumed. Kool. So when developers code these new, robust specs into their game, that game will be incapable of running on the previous platforms. 
Yeah......this was carefully thought through.
I don't think its that kind of upgrade unless the previous solution has a way of adapting, also. I think the upgrade is more general than anything.
Yeah......this was carefully thought through.
I don't think its that kind of upgrade unless the previous solution has a way of adapting, also. I think the upgrade is more general than anything.
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With the exception of the 360/PS3 generation, history has shown that the average console lifecyle is around 5-6 years. We are on the 3rd year of this generation so it is very conceivable that they have started drawing up plans for the next generation.
Because a decades worth of gamers and their parents grew up with a different impression of a console generation, this may just be Sony and Microsoft's attempt to reset expectations. That, realistically, a $400 investment in tech should not be relevant for a decade. It is not unrealistic and few consumers would argue that a laptop, phone, mp3 player or tablet they purchased a decade ago would retain its relavancy as long as the PS4 and 360 did.
So Sony and Microsoft float this ballon out there to get feedback as well as begin to curb expectations. I think the one thing that is likely with the next gen is that both players realize they are going to have to at least aim for full backwards compatibility out of the box, as well as some form of possible forward compatiblity, to help bridge the consumers expectation with reality. An expectation they helped foster by milking the last gen so long.
I don't think we have seen the end yet. I think we are only seeing the beginning of the two companies start to pour over ideas that will allow them to reset the next generation on a more historical time scale while not alienating the customer base. Let's just hope MS does a better job of vetting and communicating their plans than they did last time.
Because a decades worth of gamers and their parents grew up with a different impression of a console generation, this may just be Sony and Microsoft's attempt to reset expectations. That, realistically, a $400 investment in tech should not be relevant for a decade. It is not unrealistic and few consumers would argue that a laptop, phone, mp3 player or tablet they purchased a decade ago would retain its relavancy as long as the PS4 and 360 did.
So Sony and Microsoft float this ballon out there to get feedback as well as begin to curb expectations. I think the one thing that is likely with the next gen is that both players realize they are going to have to at least aim for full backwards compatibility out of the box, as well as some form of possible forward compatiblity, to help bridge the consumers expectation with reality. An expectation they helped foster by milking the last gen so long.
I don't think we have seen the end yet. I think we are only seeing the beginning of the two companies start to pour over ideas that will allow them to reset the next generation on a more historical time scale while not alienating the customer base. Let's just hope MS does a better job of vetting and communicating their plans than they did last time.
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I could believe they've started planning the next consoles. I can't possibly imagine they're anywhere close to having a releasable console that does 4K at acceptable frame rates at an acceptable console price point any time before 2019. I think Sony's going to need longer than that anyhow to get their launch exclusive "The Last Of Us: Super Turbo 4K edition" complete anyhow.
The only way a "designed for 4k" will be remotely possible is if every game is designed for the bottom SKU. The second you remove that, the developer will (rightly) use that power for other, better things like lighting, physics, framerate, etc.
I will never understand why people don't get this. THERE IS NO 4K SOLUTION OTHER THAN DESIGNING STRICTLY FOR IT. These systems could do it now, but the games would look like PS2 games. Seriously. The reason PCs can do it now is because games are designed at console spec. That's it.
And that is keeping everything else the same. All that power to make it sharper, lol. "Hey! Should we make graphics that look more real, or shove all the power into 4k resolutions? Who needs smarter AI or more intricate physical interactions and animation systems? Not me! I need to make you feel like you don't need glasses, you eagle, you!"
There's no point. This is the kind of crap that put Sega out of business. Why fragment your fan base when you can just wait another 2-3 years and put out a beast of a console for next gen? 4k isn't going to be mainstream until 2019. Which is exactly when new consoles are due anyway.
I reckon the PS4k (ugh) will be the regular PS4 spec with a new upscaler to 4K, UHD 4K Blu-ray capability and HDMI 2.0 to allow 4K 60 Hz display output.
That's it.
I look forward to E3 where Sony reveals a new 5 TFLOP machine and my prediction is totally wrong.
That's it.
I look forward to E3 where Sony reveals a new 5 TFLOP machine and my prediction is totally wrong.
Seems like it is becoming more and more real.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ystation-4k-is-real-but-why-is-sony-making-it
So what do we know about the rumoured PlayStation 4.5? In the wake of last week's post-GDC outing of the hardware by Kotaku, we have independently established that it's real and that Sony's R&D labs have prototype devices, and we also have more than one source referring to it as PlayStation 4K, the name we'll be using for now. And this is where things become slightly strange - because while more GPU power is being offered to developers, realistically it is nowhere near enough to provide native 4K gaming at the same quality level as current 1080p titles. The full extent of the spec is a current focus of enquiry for us, but realistically, it is simply impossible to cram the equivalent of today's top-end PC graphics hardware into a console-sized, mass-market box.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ystation-4k-is-real-but-why-is-sony-making-it
So what do we know about the rumoured PlayStation 4.5? In the wake of last week's post-GDC outing of the hardware by Kotaku, we have independently established that it's real and that Sony's R&D labs have prototype devices, and we also have more than one source referring to it as PlayStation 4K, the name we'll be using for now. And this is where things become slightly strange - because while more GPU power is being offered to developers, realistically it is nowhere near enough to provide native 4K gaming at the same quality level as current 1080p titles. The full extent of the spec is a current focus of enquiry for us, but realistically, it is simply impossible to cram the equivalent of today's top-end PC graphics hardware into a console-sized, mass-market box.