Anyone doing the low/no carb diet?

I think people see an opening to 'Hack' their appetite by realizing that food impacts our hormones, which then later influence appeite or food cravings. Of course the chief one here being insulin, but perhaps also dopamine.

Sometimes extreme diets are good for eliminating then reintroducing foods to find out of there are issues or degrees of food intolerance such as Gluten or Lactose.

Aside from Veggies or Meats, people are also questioning how well Milk or Grains fit into diet, especially with Bread.

I'm inclined to think Meat with most Veggies is fine, but I'm not sure if Fruit(Fructose) or Grains or Milk are really that great.
 
I've been watching lots of Youtube presentations on these issues over the past couple of months. I'm no expert, but it's been fascinating learning about things such as insulin resistance and how important that is, the dangers of processed carbs, sugar, and the SAD (standard American diet), the way obesity rates parallel nutritional advice (still in place) to eat a diet high in grains/cereals and low in animal protein and fat, the demonization of cholesterol, meat, and fat, the probable diet of our early ancestors and what our systems are actually designed to eat, the poor science behind a lot of common nutritional advice, talk about fiber, how the RDAs were obtained, and a lot of other stuff. It's really upended my belief system about food and nutrition.

Btw, if anyone saw the recent article about how "low carb" diets are associated with lower life spans, don't fret. It made the rounds, and you saw it repeatedly cited in papers, by doctors, etc. It's a completely flawed study, but you won't hear that in the general media. You really have to do your own research and dig a little, before the facts get clear.

This sounds a little conspiratorial, probably, but I think it's also good to remember that there are a lot of industries (pharmaceutical, medical, agricultural) that depend on people eating a crap diet (lots of refined carbs, processed foods, etc.), and those groups are continually funding studies, putting out media releases, lobbying congress, "educating" the public and influencing government policies. It's another reason why you have to do your own digging. The people out there doing the good work are typically scientists and physicians working without a lot of support.

lowcarbdownunder (search Youtube) is a good site for presentations, if anyone's interested. Here's a basic intro video about sugar, insulin resistance, etc.


 
JinCA said:
It's basically "gotten rid" of mine as well, I was diagnosed in January of 2017, started doing Keto (well low carb) about a month or two later and have lost a ton of weight and my blood sugar normalized very quickly. I have cheated a few times over the past few weeks and my blood sugar still goes right back to where it should be, within 2 hours of eating something bad it goes to under 90 and I never have spikes when fasting. I think maybe I had just gotten so big and had been eating so poorly that my body couldn't handle it anymore but once I got down to a reasonable weight things seemed to fall back into place rather quickly. Within 3 months my A1C went from 10 to 6 and the last one I had was 4.8.
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That's awesome. Glad to hear it. I was probably undiagnosed pre-diabetic myself (actually I've seen research suggesting the majority of people in the US probably are). It's pretty fantastic that a change in your diet can have such radical effects on your health. But then, I guess it makes sense. You literally are what you eat, right?

Swede said:
Vegan diet I'm sure works but honestly I wouldn't sacrifice eating delicious meat for that. The meat industry is f***ed though and as long as you don't hunt it yourself or make sure you buy from a good local butcher, you're most likely f***ing up the environment as most in the world. This doesn't feel great.
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Yeah, I'd like to eventually get more selective in the type of meat I buy. If I have the option, I'd like to choose meat that comes from animals that are raised humanely. I always choose cage-free eggs, but the selections for meat are very limited in that regard, where I live. Animal welfare has always been an important issue for me. I was even vegetarian for a while, because of it -- not for health reasons, but for ethical ones. I was disgusted by some of what I heard and saw about factory farming. I wasn't able to continue to eat vegetarian, though (and my version of vegetarian allowed fish). I only lasted about 6 months.

JinCA said:
Grass-fed beef is really expensive, you get a lot less and pay more. Most of what we get here in California comes from Australia so you are paying for the plane ticket more than the meat lol. I haven't tried it but the butcher tells me it has a gamey taste to it and he doesn't like it, neither does anyone else who works at the meat counter.
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I've heard grass fed is more healthy, and I believe that's true, but I've also heard that people get very good results with normal meat. There also seems to be confusion about what "grass fed" means, exactly (all cows are grass fed up to the point where they get to reach a large weight; it seems to refer to the "finishing" process rather than the majority of their lives). The way I heard it described is, you'll get some additional health benefits with grass fed, but it's not a massive difference, maybe it's 20% better, and if you don't like it or can't get it, there's no reason to avoid normal meat.

I have tried some of it. It tastes fine to me, but in my area, the grass-fed selection is pretty small. You can find grass-fed hamburger patties and some occasional grass-fed cuts of beef in my local stores, but it's maybe 5% of the total selection. They're always more expensive, and the selection is just too limited.

Videodrome said:
Sometimes extreme diets are good for eliminating then reintroducing foods
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the majority of the benefits I'm seeing from eating carnivore are because it eliminates all the stuff I was eating before -- all the grains, all the processed foods, the processed meats, processed carbs, vegetables, vegetable oils, sugar, etc. I'm seeing such good results from eating just meat that I'm going to stick with it for at least 90 days, but after that, I may toy around with re-introducing some other foods, like fruits or certain veggies.
 
Andy said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the majority of the benefits I'm seeing from eating carnivore are because it eliminates all the stuff I was eating before -- all the grains, all the processed foods, the processed meats, processed carbs, vegetables, vegetable oils, sugar, etc. I'm seeing such good results from eating just meat that I'm going to stick with it for at least 90 days, but after that, I may toy around with re-introducing some other foods, like fruits or certain veggies.
Click to expand...

I'd say go for Mushrooms. I think even Jordan Peterson was considering that. Barely any Calories or Carbs, but has nutrition. Probably a very different food profile from any veggies or fruits overall.

IMO Mushrooms are an excellent sauteed food to go with meat. Good on steak and maybe consider sauteed onions as well. Try some Shiitake. Then you're getting awesome flavor without using sauces.

I also love a good Mushroom Swiss Burger. No bun though of course.
 
Videodrome said:
I'd say go for Mushrooms. I think even Jordan Peterson was considering that. Barely any Calories or Carbs, but has nutrition. Probably a very different food profile from any veggies or fruits overall.

IMO Mushrooms are an excellent sauteed food to go with meat. Good on steak and maybe consider sauteed onions as well. Try some Shiitake. Then you're getting awesome flavor without using sauces.

I also love a good Mushroom Swiss Burger. No bun though of course.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll have to give that some thought. My first choice would probably be some kind of fruit, but mushrooms might work, too. I even have a mushroom in my avatar (in honor of Trump's penis).

I mentioned the dangers of nitrates in beef jerky earlier, so I should correct that. I just saw this a minute ago. He's saying there's really no danger in nitrates/nitrites. That's news to me. Another "expert opinion" based on bad research. I cued it up to the main part.

 
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Andy said:
I've been watching lots of Youtube presentations on these issues over the past couple of months. I'm no expert, but it's been fascinating learning about things such as insulin resistance and how important that is, the dangers of processed carbs, sugar, and the SAD (standard American diet), the way obesity rates parallel nutritional advice (still in place) to eat a diet high in grains/cereals and low in animal protein and fat, the demonization of cholesterol, meat, and fat, the probable diet of our early ancestors and what our systems are actually designed to eat, the poor science behind a lot of common nutritional advice, talk about fiber, how the RDAs were obtained, and a lot of other stuff. It's really upended my belief system about food and nutrition.

Btw, if anyone saw the recent article about how "low carb" diets are associated with lower life spans, don't fret. It made the rounds, and you saw it repeatedly cited in papers, by doctors, etc. It's a completely flawed study, but you won't hear that in the general media. You really have to do your own research and dig a little, before the facts get clear.

This sounds a little conspiratorial, probably, but I think it's also good to remember that there are a lot of industries (pharmaceutical, medical, agricultural) that depend on people eating a crap diet (lots of refined carbs, processed foods, etc.), and those groups are continually funding studies, putting out media releases, lobbying congress, "educating" the public and influencing government policies. It's another reason why you have to do your own digging. The people out there doing the good work are typically scientists and physicians working without a lot of support.

lowcarbdownunder (search Youtube) is a good site for presentations, if anyone's interested. Here's a basic intro video about sugar, insulin resistance, etc.


Click to expand...


I know when I was first diagnosed they put me on a few medications that made me feel like crap and the only advice I got by my original doctor was "watch the carbs" So I looked up what the ADA says to eat and they have it all wrong, they want you eating rice and Pasta and fruits etc, all things your body is telling you that it can't handle at the time. Once I found out about keto and intermittent fasting I gave that a shot and things got better fast, I was off of those medications quickly and my doctor at the time was shocked that not only had I stopped the medication (I was testing my blood to make sure it was alright) but that a dietary change could make such a big impact so quickly. Thankfully I changed doctors and I trust the one I have now a lot more, he seems more open to things not quite being as settled as some think. If the ADA had it so right on diabetes we would be much better at fighting it now than we are.
 
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JinCA said:
I know when I was first diagnosed they put me on a few medications that made me feel like crap and the only advice I got by my original doctor was "watch the carbs" So I looked up what the ADA says to eat and they have it all wrong, they want you eating rice and Pasta and fruits etc, all things your body is telling you that it can't handle at the time. Once I found out about keto and intermittent fasting I gave that a shot and things got better fast, I was off of those medications quickly and my doctor at the time was shocked that not only had I stopped the medication (I was testing my blood to make sure it was alright) but that a dietary change could make such a big impact so quickly. Thankfully I changed doctors and I trust the one I have now a lot more, he seems more open to things not quite being as settled as some think. If the ADA had it so right on diabetes we would be much better at fighting it now than we are.
Click to expand...

Isn't that crazy, that the ADA would advise people with diabetes to consume more of the foods that caused the problem in the first place? And that they would be so clueless about the mechanisms behind the disease? The AHA isn't much better, pushing a diet that has been shown to provide no protective benefit at all, and continuing to focus on markers that have very limited predictive value. The FDA seems misguided and manipulated as well.

I saw my doctor yesterday. It was the usual visit in modern medicine -- a quick 10 minute check of the computer to review last lab results, order new labs, check on your meds, see you later. I told her I was on a LCHF diet (didn't say carnivore; I know how that sounds), talked to her about the gains to energy, mood, and mental acuity, and about the weight loss. She was supportive, said a LCHF is the diet recommended by a lot of cardiologists.

My impression is that most physicians, and most of the medical profession, is a couple of decades behind in their understanding of this stuff. Everyone thinks of doctors as very smart, and they are above average in intelligence. But their actual training in 1) research methodology (especially in how to scrutinize the quality of research) and 2) nutritional science is often very limited. There's a lot of catching up to do.

Thank goodness for Youtube, or I'd have no idea about this stuff, either.
 
My understanding is doctors are not even trained in nutrition. Their job is treating illness or injuries.

Get the flu or break a bone or get a bad cut; they can send you and patch you up.
 
Videodrome said:
My understanding is doctors are not even trained in nutrition. Their job is treating illness or injuries.

Get the flu or break a bone or get a bad cut; they can send you and patch you up.
Click to expand...

That may be true. I'm not sure they get any specialized education in nutrition at all. They may just absorb the "received wisdom" of whatever is floating around in the medical community, without questioning it (like most people). Such a shame, because what you eat has such an impact on health.

I think there are some signs that the medical community is changing, though. Very slowly. And against a LOT of resistance -- from the pharmaceutical industry, for instance, and agricultural groups, from all the businesses that depend on us eating the standard american diet, and from the medical field itself. Re. the latter, I've been hearing stories of physicians losing their licenses for practicing this way, because medical boards are filled with doctors who know only the conventional wisdom. Medicine is a lot like science at times -- there are entrenched biases, and it can take decades for a new idea to penetrate.

Anyhow, the best strategy for any of us is to not wait for medicine to catch up, but to investigate the issues ourselves. That's where I think Youtube, podcasts, and so forth have been so revolutionary. They've allowed the word to get out in ways that the old media would not.
 
HOW CAN YOU SPOT A FAD DIET?
Weight-loss advice comes in literally hundreds of disguises. Most often the "new" and "revolutionary" diets are really old fad diets making an encore appearance. Examples of fad diets include those that:

  • tout or ban a specific food or food group
  • suggest that food can change body chemistry
  • blame specific hormones for weight problems
TEN RED FLAGS THAT SIGNAL BAD NUTRITION ADVICE:
  1. Recommendations that promise a quick fix
  2. Dire warnings of dangers from a single product or regimen
  3. Claims that sound too good to be true
  4. Simplistic conclusions drawn from a complex study
  5. Recommendations based on a single study
  6. Dramatic statements that are refuted by reputable scientific organizations
  7. Lists of "good" and "bad" foods
  8. Recommendations made to help sell a product
  9. Recommendations based on studies published without peer review
  10. Recommendations from studies that ignore differences among individuals or groups

https://www.brighamandwomens.org/pa...tion/bwh-nutrition-and-wellness-hub/fad-diets
 
The Sunset Limited said:
HOW CAN YOU SPOT A FAD DIET?
Weight-loss advice comes in literally hundreds of disguises. Most often the "new" and "revolutionary" diets are really old fad diets making an encore appearance. Examples of fad diets include those that:

  • tout or ban a specific food or food group
  • suggest that food can change body chemistry
  • blame specific hormones for weight problems
TEN RED FLAGS THAT SIGNAL BAD NUTRITION ADVICE:
  1. Recommendations that promise a quick fix
  2. Dire warnings of dangers from a single product or regimen
  3. Claims that sound too good to be true
  4. Simplistic conclusions drawn from a complex study
  5. Recommendations based on a single study
  6. Dramatic statements that are refuted by reputable scientific organizations
  7. Lists of "good" and "bad" foods
  8. Recommendations made to help sell a product
  9. Recommendations based on studies published without peer review
  10. Recommendations from studies that ignore differences among individuals or groups

https://www.brighamandwomens.org/pa...tion/bwh-nutrition-and-wellness-hub/fad-diets
Click to expand...
So... basically vegans are snake oil merchants?
 
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Swede said:
Yes, but it's impossible to lose weight if your caloric intake is higher than your output, keso or not.
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One thing that makes keto work better for most is that the food is more filling so you really don't feel hungry all that often, when I tried being a vegetarian many years ago I was just tired and hungry all the time. Funny thing is EVERY vegan I know tells me "oh you just didn't do it right" and it just comes across like every religious person I know that I tell I'm a non believer. They always say "oh you just never went to the right church, come to mine and you'll see it's different" and yet I go to their church and it's the same old crap! Some songs, some guilt and then a basket being passed around asking for "donations" yet everyone watches to make sure you put something in lol.
 
JinCA said:
One thing that makes keto work better for most is that the food is more filling so you really don't feel hungry all that often, when I tried being a vegetarian many years ago I was just tired and hungry all the time. Funny thing is EVERY vegan I know tells me "oh you just didn't do it right" and it just comes across like every religious person I know that I tell I'm a non believer. They always say "oh you just never went to the right church, come to mine and you'll see it's different" and yet I go to their church and it's the same old crap! Some songs, some guilt and then a basket being passed around asking for "donations" yet everyone watches to make sure you put something in lol.
Click to expand...


This makes me think of people who seek to find a niche as 'Motivational Speakers' or trying to be the next Tony Robbins or Self-Help Guru. It can be very weird.
 
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JinCA said:
Funny thing is EVERY vegan I know tells me "oh you just didn't do it right" and it just comes across like every religious person I know that I tell I'm a non believer. They always say "oh you just never went to the right church, come to mine and you'll see it's different" and yet I go to their church and it's the same old crap! Some songs, some guilt and then a basket being passed around asking for "donations" yet everyone watches to make sure you put something in lol.
Click to expand...

To oversimplify a little, it seems to me that vegans come in two varieties: the ones who do it for health reasons, and the ones who do it for moral/ethical reasons. The latter often remind me of religious zealots. They are intensely opposed to anything they see as being hurtful to animals. You'll find a lot of them on the west coast -- very left wing, usually aligned with SJW causes, hipsters, soy boys. I'm opposed to animal cruelty myself, but these guys are like PETA in their fanaticism.

That's where the opposition to the carnivore diet comes from. It's not about health; that's a pretext. Vegans want to tear it down, because they think it is EVIL, morally and ethically. After all, it's a diet that focuses on eating animal flesh. Vegans detest that sort of thing. It goes right at the heart of their belief system.

So, anyone investigating the carnivore diet should be aware of that. Beware of the vegan propaganda. They're not interested in the truth; they just want to find a way to tear it down. The reliable info will come from two places: 1) physicians or researchers who know their stuff (i.e., are not dyed in the wool traditional docs with no real understanding of nutrition); and 2) from people who have actually been on the diet for a while and can tell you about their experience. Thousands of people have been on this diet for years -- some of them for decades -- and they are reporting very positive results. Here's a list of resources: http://justmeat.co/

I realize carnivory won't appeal to everyone. There's something in me that likes the weirdness of it, the unconventionality of it. I like the simplicity of it, too. And I certainly like the results. But I realize most people will find it too weird or too much, somehow. That's okay; I'm just putting the info out there for anyone who's curious and open-minded. Go low-carb somehow. It doesn't have to be carnivore. It can be paleo or keto or one of the other variations of low-carb. They are all a hell of a lot better than the standard american diet.
 
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Make sure to follow the advice of the experts -- traditional medical doctors, medical societies, normal nutritionists, and large government agencies. They've gotten us to where we are today.
 
Interesting vid on how a 20-year vegan destroyed her health with the vegan diet. And when I say "destroyed," I mean destroyed -- her spine degenerated, and she's going to be on opiate pain medication the rest of her life. There are hundreds of stories like this out there, of people ruining their health on the vegan or vegetarian diets.

2:30 to 5:00, she discusses the damage of the vegan diet.

Around 10:30, she touches on what I think is a fascinating angle -- that the reason we were able, as a species, to evolve such huge brains several millions of years ago, is because we ate tons of meat. That's not her idea, btw; I've seen it presented several times elsewhere, and the science seems solid, at least from what I can tell. She also touches on the fact that the archeological data supports this as well -- it clearly shows we ate a meat-centered diet for millions of years. So, that's what our bodies are designed for. Modern nutritional recommendations (e.g., the food pyramid, advice coming from so-called "experts" in the medical-government establishment, etc. ) is the abberration.

Anyhow, here's the video.





I picked up Far Cry Primal today, too. A game to match my lifestyle, lol
 
I just try to eat a balanced meal for lunch and dinner. Bit of meat, plenty of veggies, and some cheese/cottage cheese. I've severely cut back on carb heavy stuff like bread. I haven't been much of a sweets person for a long time so that wasn't something I had to worry about. It was mainly cutting carbs to at least half daily suggested for most of my meals, or at least going the healthiest way possible like thin crust pizza because ain't no way I'm giving that up. Calories I've tried cutting to anywhere from 1500-1800 a day so I'm at least cutting something every day, or giving myself a buffer if I have an off day.

It's honestly gotten to the point that once I get down to my hopeful weight (180 I think) I'm going to have to figure out how to add more calories to maintain weight lol. I'm about 187 last scale check so slow and steady has worked for me so by end of year I should be down to that 180. I do want to start doing some light strength training though so I'm sure that will change up the calorie needs and help finish off that last bit of stomach fat. I'll be f***ing ripped for next summer. Prepare yourselves ladies.
 
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Yup, do whatever works for you, whatever produces good results.
 
Andy said:
Interesting vid on how a 20-year vegan destroyed her health with the vegan diet. And when I say "destroyed," I mean destroyed -- her spine degenerated, and she's going to be on opiate pain medication the rest of her life. There are hundreds of stories like this out there, of people ruining their health on the vegan or vegetarian diets.

2:30 to 5:00, she discusses the damage of the vegan diet.

Around 10:30, she touches on what I think is a fascinating angle -- that the reason we were able, as a species, to evolve such huge brains several millions of years ago, is because we ate tons of meat. That's not her idea, btw; I've seen it presented several times elsewhere, and the science seems solid, at least from what I can tell. She also touches on the fact that the archeological data supports this as well -- it clearly shows we ate a meat-centered diet for millions of years. So, that's what our bodies are designed for. Modern nutritional recommendations (e.g., the food pyramid, advice coming from so-called "experts" in the medical-government establishment, etc. ) is the abberration.

Anyhow, here's the video.





I picked up Far Cry Primal today, too. A game to match my lifestyle, lol
Click to expand...


Some interesting thoughts.

I'm not sure how realistic her idea is that we can eat from free roaming animals in a forest or grassland instead of farming unless human population numbers drastically drop. Maybe part of this would have to include Fish Farming on a new scale to make up for it. It also seems like a weird process to grab roaming animals for slaughter all the time.

I was hoping to hear more specifically what her diet is.

The comments on use of Fire was interesting as I think that cooking destroys the Anti-Nutrients especially in Nightshades like Tomato. If most Vegans are eating raw plants, that might be a problem area in addition to low B12. I also think most Seed foods need to be boiled or Sprouted. In some cases, they'll flip open if heated like with Popcorn Seeds.

Otherwise, I think even Carnivores will eat some plant matter even though it's not for them such as when Cats naturally like to eat grass.


As for the surge in human develpment, my favorite theory is from Terence McKenna that humans came down from the trees to the grasslands to forage. One of the new foods was mushrooms and some were active psychedelics. It would explain why we're so messed up.
 
Videodrome said:
Some interesting thoughts.

I'm not sure how realistic her idea is that we can eat from free roaming animals in a forest or grassland instead of farming unless human population numbers drastically drop. Maybe part of this would have to include Fish Farming on a new scale to make up for it. It also seems like a weird process to grab roaming animals for slaughter all the time.

I was hoping to hear more specifically what her diet is.
Click to expand...

Yeah, she seems pretty radically pro-environment -- which is not a bad thing, but she seems like she could be too unrealistic or idealistic to me. Otoh, she's done a lot more thinking and research about this than I have, so maybe she's got some good points, I don't know. Honestly, I didn't listen to that section of the interview, because it's not really something I'm all that interested in. I'm kind of a pragmatic guy, so a lot of the talk in this area seems a little pie-in-the-sky to me.

The comments on use of Fire was interesting as I think that cooking destroys the Anti-Nutrients especially in Nightshades like Tomato. If most Vegans are eating raw plants, that might be a problem area in addition to low B12. I also think most Seed foods need to be boiled or Sprouted. In some cases, they'll flip open if heated like with Popcorn Seeds.
Click to expand...

It makes me wonder, if we have to work so hard to render plants non-toxic and digestible, are they really all that natural a food source for us? I'm not anti-veggie, but it's interesting seeing holes poked in the old dogma about how wonderful and healthy they are.

Otherwise, I think even Carnivores will eat some plant matter even though it's not for them such as when Cats naturally like to eat grass.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with that. Our systems seem to be designed to eat plants, probably because that was a useful adaptation -- you want to be able to extract nutrition from whatever is available, if meat is in short supply. Otherwise you die. So while we may be basically carnivores, we're still technically omnivores, in that we can eat some plants.

I found it interesting to hear that gorillas (which people will sometimes point to as evidence we should be eating a plant-based diet) basically live off a high-fat, low-carb diet. They have a little farm set up in their stomach, but instead of cows, they raise and eat bacteria.

As for the surge in human develpment, my favorite theory is from Terence McKenna that humans came down from the trees to the grasslands to forage. One of the new foods was mushrooms and some were active psychedelics. It would explain why we're so messed up.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't being high on shrooms make you easier prey, though?
 
Andy said:
Wouldn't being high on shrooms make you easier prey, though?
Click to expand...

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/is...ic-mushrooms-played-a-role-in-human-evolution

McKenna’s “Stoned Ape” theory of human evolution breaks the process into three stages. In stage one, around 40 to 50 thousand years ago, early hominids in Africa, like h*** Erectus, were forced to abandon their canopy-dwelling lifestyle due to the desertification of the African continent. As they were forced to find new sources of food, they followed herds of wild cattle in whose dung they found insects that became part of their diet. Also in the dung were magic mushrooms that often grow in such environments.

As they started to eat these mushrooms in low doses, early hominids improved their visuals acuity and became betters hunters and survivors, giving them an advantage over those who did not consume the shrooms.

The last stage of how psychedelics changed the brain came from taking higher doses of the mushrooms. McKenna argued that when doses doubled, psilocybin affected the language-forming region of the brain, causing vocalizations that became the raw material for the evolution of language. This also led to the first human religious impulse.

Evidence has been found that Stone Age humans ate mushrooms. German anthropologists discovered mushroom spores on the teeth of a prehistoric woman who lived around 18,700 years ago.
In 2015, the Spanish anthropologist Professor Guerra-Doce published a paper outlining the use of hallucinogenic plants by early humans. Additionally, Neolithic and Bronze cave paintings that resembled psilocybin mushrooms were found in the Italian Alps and in Villar del Humo in Cuenca, Spain.


(Cave painting of the staples of an evolving human diet? Animals and Shrooms? )

980x.jpg


980x.png





Interesting clip that references The Stoned Ape hypothesis.

(NOTE: Paul Stamets mentions some huge fungus neural network about 3:30 in. He's referring a real collossal growth called the Mycelium Mass considered to be effectively the largest living organism on Earth.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/ )




hE7D8B779
 
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Videodrome said:
https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/is...ic-mushrooms-played-a-role-in-human-evolution

McKenna’s “Stoned Ape” theory of human evolution breaks the process into three stages. In stage one, around 40 to 50 thousand years ago, early hominids in Africa, like h*** Erectus, were forced to abandon their canopy-dwelling lifestyle due to the desertification of the African continent. As they were forced to find new sources of food, they followed herds of wild cattle in whose dung they found insects that became part of their diet. Also in the dung were magic mushrooms that often grow in such environments.

As they started to eat these mushrooms in low doses, early hominids improved their visuals acuity and became betters hunters and survivors, giving them an advantage over those who did not consume the shrooms.

The last stage of how psychedelics changed the brain came from taking higher doses of the mushrooms. McKenna argued that when doses doubled, psilocybin affected the language-forming region of the brain, causing vocalizations that became the raw material for the evolution of language. This also led to the first human religious impulse.

Evidence has been found that Stone Age humans ate mushrooms. German anthropologists discovered mushroom spores on the teeth of a prehistoric woman who lived around 18,700 years ago.
In 2015, the Spanish anthropologist Professor Guerra-Doce published a paper outlining the use of hallucinogenic plants by early humans. Additionally, Neolithic and Bronze cave paintings that resembled psilocybin mushrooms were found in the Italian Alps and in Villar del Humo in Cuenca, Spain.


(Cave painting of the staples of an evolving human diet? Animals and Shrooms? )

980x.jpg


980x.png





Interesting clip that references The Stoned Ape hypothesis.

(NOTE: Paul Stamets mentions some huge fungus neural network about 3:30 in. He's referring a real collossal growth called the Mycelium Mass considered to be effectively the largest living organism on Earth.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/ )




hE7D8B779
Click to expand...



Interesting. I didn't realize we were all descended from fungus. I suppose that makes sense.

It's an interesting hypothesis, and he admits its speculative and unprovable, but who knows. I'm sure drugs and hallucinatory experiences played some type of role in our early ancestry.

I don't think those cave paintings are mushrooms, though. I think those are early symbols. I have no idea what they symbolize. Maybe directions to the hunting ground? Maybe representations of the tribe members (which would've numbered around that size)? Maybe early symbolic language that forms a statement of some kind. It sure would be interesting to know.
 
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