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eVo7 said:
The reason in the past (before RDNA) that's CU's don't scale linearly is because of their inefficiences to do work in each clock cycle, I posted a article about it around here somewhere. That changed with RDNA which is why we are seeing cards like 5700 and 5700 XT(36 and 40 CU's) perform better than Vega GPU's with 56 CU and 64 CU.
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Thanks for the info! I believe a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions based on how things used to work.

I heard from a former dev on a podcast say on paper, Sonys IO, memory setup and non-reliance of DX12 makes PS5 look like a better console for developers. However he also admitted that without taking a dive into how all the new methods worked, knowing where the new bottlenecks are, etc...he couldn't say that for sure. It was just his gut reaction after listening to Cerny speak and not having the same level of detail from Microsoft. I think a lot of the misinformation is coming from devs listening to Cerny talk about efficiencies and removing bottlenecks without the understanding Series X does similar things at a minimum.

Edit: Also does anyone know if DX12U changes the gap between DX and Vulcan? It's interesting that Microsoft is getting beat so clearly in an area that should be their wheelhouse.
 
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The Living Tribunal said:
Stopped reading when he said DX12 was slow and old...
I mean I majored in CS and work as a programmer/database programmer who also has worked with visual studio, java, and Windows environments. I find that statement about DX12 a little disingenuous IMHO.
While DX12 does inherently build off of older legacy APIs i.e. DX11 etc, Microsoft has been pretty good with updating what is there. Vulcan is just now giving Direct X a run for the money. With that said there is a reason why DX12 is the industry standard when it comes to graphical APIs.

The guy sounds like he loves the PS5 and there is nothing wrong with preferring their development tools, but if the versions of DX10, 11, and 12 are such an issue to game development why are we just now hearing about it? Where were the developers in the PS3/360 gen complaining about DX10 being such an issue for the 360?
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Could of sworn I read PS5 Dev kits were further along or something like that....
 
eVo7 said:
The reason in the past (before RDNA) that's CU's don't scale linearly is because of their inefficiences to do work in each clock cycle, I posted a article about it around here somewhere. That changed with RDNA which is why we are seeing cards like 5700 and 5700 XT(36 and 40 CU's) perform better than Vega GPU's with 56 CU and 64 CU.
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In this case both are based on RDNA 2 so XSX should still have the advantage with CU's.
 
OneBadMutha said:
Thanks for the info! I believe a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions based on how things used to work.

I heard from a former dev on a podcast say on paper, Sonys IO, memory setup and non-reliance of DX12 makes PS5 look like a better console for developers. However he also admitted that without taking a dive into how all the new methods worked, knowing where the new bottlenecks are, etc...he couldn't say that for sure. It was just his gut reaction after listening to Cerny speak and not having the same level of detail from Microsoft. I think a lot of the misinformation is coming from devs listening to Cerny talk about efficiencies and removing bottlenecks without the understanding Series X does similar things at a minimum.

Edit: Also does anyone know if DX12U changes the gap between DX and Vulcan? It's interesting that Microsoft is getting beat so clearly in an area that should be their wheelhouse.
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A few people/videos claimed this.
But IMO it's to early to assume we know everything about these supposed newer dx 12 tools.
 
tenor.gif
 
OneBadMutha said:
We can finally swear here?! f*** yeah!

Edit: such bulls***. Lol

Edit #2: I say for the next gen, we remove the swearing filters in this forum. We're all adults now. Some days we even act like it
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Has nothing to do with being adults. Has to do with AdSense.
 
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OneBadMutha said:
So much drama...

In the end it will be more ray tracing vs better load times. That's what the majority of people will see outside of freeze frames. All I care is that devs always give me a 60fps option.
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You are probably right. Especially with features like DLSS which can really improve a lower resolution. Seeing the effect it had on Control on my PC is pretty nuts.
 
VaLLiancE said:
"Crytek engineer: PS5 better console, easier to reach peak performance"




Translated in these threads....

www.resetera.com

Crytek engineer: PS5 better console, easier to reach peak performance

So Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer from Crytek, did an interview where he talked about PS5 and XSX: Translation using Microsoft's translation service: https://www.translatetheweb.com/?from=fa&to=en&dl=de&ref=trb&a=https%3A%2F%2Fvigiato.net%2Fp%2F85342 Translation using Google's translation...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com


www.neogaf.com

Is PS5 more powerful or the XSX? Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek answers

Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 OK Here we go! It is a long...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com

oh boy
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Just to let you know, he remove his post. That should tell you something.
 
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It's so easy to get sucked into the pissing match over the details of these comparisons but these are the fun things we could be focusing on:
  • Ray Tracing - Depending on the level of implimentation, I believe this will result in the largest jump in visual impact since moving to HD in 2005​
  • ML - whether it be upscaling to save resources, procedural worlds or upgrades to old games, ML will continue to iterate over the gen and the gains could impact results more than the pure power increase. It will impact dev tools as well as hardware efficiency.​
  • Low loading times - if you play hard games or looter shooters, this will give more much more time to actuall game. As I get older, time is the most valuable resource.​
  • More connected game worlds, less load screens - I/O speeds and SSDs being capable of acting as scratch pads will allow devs to create more connected worlds once they fully cross over to next gen hardware​
  • Physics, particle effects, dynamic game worlds, animations and AI can all advance - whether PC or next gen consoles, CPU baselines will be significantly increased. So many aspects of game design, gameplay and visuals will be impacted by this. Physics, collision detection, and AI in particular have been stagnant for 2 gens. No more.​
This is the next gen. I don't believe the delta between these consoles is enough to deter from any of that.
 
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news.xbox.com

Inside Xbox Returns Tuesday with Grounded and More - Xbox Wire

Inside Xbox returns with its first new episode for 2020 tomorrow, Tuesday, April 7, at 2 p.m. PT / 5 p.m. ET. As with most of the world, we’re working from home at the moment, but we have old and new friends alike who will bring you the latest news on Grounded, Gears Tactics, Sea […]
news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

While we won’t have any new details to share for Xbox Series X, we are excited to sit down with Director of Program Management for Xbox Series X Jason Ronald, to discuss the recently revealed technical specifications and what they mean for gamers.
 
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VaLLiancE said:
This guy is a fanboy moron!
We been through this already.


Edit: here is who I'm posting Everytime people like him get posted..

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All garbage. RedTechGaming and DF are about all I care to listen to.
 
If I have to deal with 1080/60fps games, developers can go f*ck themselves. Get good, sh*tstains.
 
MW said:
If I have to deal with 1080/60fps games, developers can go f*ck themselves. Get good, sh*tstains.
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MS already has Gears 5 running on ultra PC settings plus Raytraced GI and 50 percent more particles running at least 4k/60 after only 2 weeks of conversion on the SeX. I think we'll be good.
 
The Living Tribunal said:
I would also agree with this, but the guy made it sound as if Microsoft is running with a completely legacy API.
That IMHO just isn't accurate at all.
My initial statement still bears relevance as Vulkin is now starting to best DX.
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Aren't they now on DX12U API? I thought I read that recently.

Edit: was just announced, so probably will be in 1st party games only for a bit... Then again, they are there ones who probably need it the most, since they are committed to legacy consoles simultaneously.
 
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Sad that we live in a time when everything is manipulative, clickbait, or both. If you do not know any better, you think The Ali guy says PS5 is more powerful when he said it is better or peak perfomrance.

What he meant, is PS5 will be better for programmers ( a subjective opinion no less), & easier to reach peak performance (not the same as performs better than XBox Champion edition).

Reminds me of the misleading " Rise of Tomb Raider will be exclusive to xbox, coming this holiday" (mislead that it is not time exclusive until people called out MS to clarify) or the less obvious but equally manipulative " Uncharted 4 demo is rendered real in-engine" to pass off as realtime (which wasn't)
 
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OneBadMutha said:
It's so easy to get sucked into the pissing match over the details of these comparisons but these are the fun things we could be focusing on:
  • Ray Tracing - Depending on the level of implimentation, I believe this will result in the largest jump in visual impact since moving to HD in 2005​
  • ML - whether it be upscaling to save resources, procedural worlds or upgrades to old games, ML will continue to iterate over the gen and the gains could impact results more than the pure power increase. It will impact dev tools as well as hardware efficiency.​
  • Low loading times - if you play hard games or looter shooters, this will give more much more time to actuall game. As I get older, time is the most valuable resource.​
  • More connected game worlds, less load screens - I/O speeds and SSDs being capable of acting as scratch pads will allow devs to create more connected worlds once they fully cross over to next gen hardware​
  • Physics, particle effects, dynamic game worlds, animations and AI can all advance - whether PC or next gen consoles, CPU baselines will be significantly increased. So many aspects of game design, gameplay and visuals will be impacted by this. Physics, collision detection, and AI in particular have been stagnant for 2 gens. No more.​
This is the next gen. I don't believe the delta between these consoles is enough to deter from any of that.
Click to expand...
Things like AI & Animation has less to do with hardware than tools & resource/time.
 
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I think we have to remember that DXU is coming in hot. Devs weren't working with RDNA2 or DXU until recently...and even some aspects if DXU dont seem to be ready today. So it's fair if devs are judging Series X based on GCN and DX12 experience.

I still think it's not only possible, but likely that Microsoft trying to misdirect is why so many media members were hearing Playstation was the better system up until a few months ago. DF is still sitting on stuff Microsoft isnt ready to reveal. The DF guys being so definitive in their opinions has a lot to do with the fact they have more info than anyone outside of Microsoft.

As stated before, it's not the end all be all. Power delta, while being more important to Microsoft after getting stomped in mindshare, isn't what will determine the better overall system to the masses. I'm just saying to those holding out hope that there's some major design flaw or bottleneck that will help them serve up crow to Xbox fanboys on the Twitters....its probably not coming.
 
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OneBadMutha said:
I think we have to remember that DXU is coming in hot. Devs weren't working with RDNA2 or DXU until recently...and even some aspects if DXU dont seem to be ready today. So it's fair if devs are judging Series X based on GCN and DX12 experience.

I still think it's not only possible, but likely that Microsoft trying to misdirect is why so many media members were hearing Playstation was the better system up until a few months ago. DF is still sitting on stuff Microsoft isnt ready to reveal. The DF guys being so definitive in their opinions has a lot to do with the fact they have more info than anyone outside of Microsoft.

As stated before, it's not the end all be all. Power delta, while being more important to Microsoft after getting stomped in mindshare, isn't what will determine the better overall system to the masses. I'm just saying to those holding out hope that there's some major design flaw or bottleneck that will help them serve up crow to Xbox fanboys on the Twitters....its probably not coming.
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Power never was and never will be the deciding factor to any console generation. But it is very much an important part of it, hands down. People who say "power doesnt matter" are the same one's who dont have it. It happened to Xbox fans curent gen. It's happening to Sony fans with the PS5. .
 
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