Drive Club 30 fps vs. Forza 60 fps discussions

[menace-uk-]

I will get something away before I comment further. I think 30fps is a poor choice, they should have gone with 60fps & tone down the visuals or resolution. With this out of the way I shall continue.

Yes, X1 got a lot of stick for Forza 5 visuals, X1 hardware & 30/60 debate on Tomb Raider. And people are now using these as a fuel to knock DC 30fps. Its certainly fuel for getting back at the Sony fan-boys for knocking X1 & Forza, if you are in this kind of thing.

But when you put out the emotion, common sense will tell you that you cannot compare 2 different games with different settings & declare one if better than the other base on their fps & resolutions. Every game are optimize differently.

Forza choose a smooth frame rate over slightly better visuals (which is to say Forza 5 will look better at 30fps), This is not to say Forza 5 looks bad, but logic tell you that you can push visuals further when you run at lower frame rate. I think the decision is correct.
DC developer choose to go for better visuals & instead lower the frame rate (Which is to say, if they choose 60fps, the visual will take a hit). Who knows which will look better when they run at same setting. I didn't even knwo if DC looks better now (haven't seen much screenshots).

My point being, picking the res/fps is part of optimization. You cannot say if one game runs at 30fps & anoter different game at 60fps, the 2nd game is better, without factoring other optimizations in the games.

Even if I have a machine 5x faster than current gen, I may still opt for 1080/30, at push the visual further. Its a design choice base on hardware. Not unlike how you tune setting on your PC for what you feel best. Almost always, FPS comes first for me, but there are people who will push textures details & res over fps. There is no right or wrong answer.

Purely from a gameplay perspective, I will pick Forza smooth 60fps over DC (Supposely better looking) 30fps. However, at the same time, please do not use this as a fuel for console war or hardware debate as they are optimism differently.

If there is a debate, it should be which is a better choice for you. Smooth fps, or better visuals. As I alraedy mention, for a racing game, FPS for me.

It actually has less to do with the game than you are giving credit for here. Most of the crap is because of the "Moving goal posts" of the posters here. The Hypocritical comments. The " is fine for one but not the other" attitude. It isn;t really about comparing one game to the other.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

So let me get this straight....Forza is 60fps/1080p. 'Oh the graphics aren't that great anyway. Barely a step up from Forza 4! LOL look at the cardboard cut outs! The visuals had to be lowered due to xb1 GPU! ' Now Drive Club is 30fps (which is SAD for ANY racing game) and all of a sudden it is because 'Oh the devs were targeting that framerate' LOL. Moving goalposts indeed.

 

[IdleHands]

ANY game less than 1080p/60fps on these new gen consoles is a slap in the face to those that bought a new gen console expecting next-gen performance.

Also, any game that does 1080p/60fps but has staples of the genre missing (day/night cycles, weather, etc...) should be laughed at and made to feel inferior, because it is.

 

[menace-uk-]

ANY game less than 1080p/60fps on these new gen consoles is a slap in the face to those that bought a new gen console expecting next-gen performance.

Also, any game that does 1080p/60fps but has staples of the genre missing (day/night cycles, weather, etc...) should be laughed at and made to feel inferior, because it is.

So what about racing games that are 1080P/30FPS but are also missing those same staples of the genre ? ruh roh

 

[IdleHands]

Just as I stated, a slap in the face to all those that doled out $400+ to get a next-gen experience only to be suckered into a new-gen experience.

 

[Z A C K]

Actually pretty crazy to read the comments we get on here when a PS4 game isn't running at 60 FPS. Pretty glaring. Biased people is biased.

 

[menace-uk-]

Just as I stated, a slap in the face to all those that doled out $400+ to get a next-gen experience only to be suckered into a new-gen experience.

What's the difference ? Technically next-gen has come and gone and thus new-gen is here.

Plus, Why is it to have next-gen performance you must meet these specific and rather demanding buzz words. Surely next-gen performance is about what the games do more or better than in the previous gen. I'm not sure this whole " must be 1080p/60fps only is next-gen is fair.

 

[Kerosene31]

DC being delayed this long from launch and still running at 30fps has got to be a major disappointment. 30fps for driving games is not good. I couldn't play Forza Horizon on 360 because of it. It doesn't feel right. Driving games are about the feel of the car. At 30fps that doesn't come through well.

Some of the comments (*cough* excuses) are hysterical. If DC was out at launch and FM5 was delayed this long and running at 30 fps people would be all over it.

Forza was one of the big reasons I bought an X1 at launch. It runs great, looks great, and the driving physics are a big jump over FM4.

 

[eVo7]

What's the difference ? Technically next-gen has come and gone and thus new-gen is here.

Plus, Why is it to have next-gen performance you must meet these specific and rather demanding buzz words. Surely next-gen performance is about what the games do more or better than in the previous gen. I'm not sure this whole " must be 1080p/60fps only is next-gen is fair.

Because it's not demanding, 1080p in the gaming industry is old news now. 1080p 60fps should be a standard for consoles as 1080p was a standard for PC in the mid to late 2000's. There should have been zero reason why consoles couldn't target 1080p NATIVE and 60FPs on a large majority of games. This again shows these consoles are behind the times and outdated at launch.

Atleast when X360 launched it brought gaming into the widescreen HD era, and when brought multicore CPU's to the masses, at that time CPU's were JUST getting into dual core CPU's, and the X360 came along with a 3 core 6 thread processor which was unheard of in the mass market at the time, as was unified shaders on the GPU. Most games on PC were not being played at widescreen resolutions, most played at 1024x768, 1280x1024x 1680x1050, etc. These new consoles have literally brought nothing new to the industry.

 

[Hazard71]

This thread delivers on the stupidity of fanboys. You have one side now saying they need to act as ignorant as the other side was before. Highly logical thinking going on in here.lol

 

[starseeker]

DC being delayed this long from launch and still running at 30fps has got to be a major disappointment. 30fps for driving games is not good. I couldn't play Forza Horizon on 360 because of it. It doesn't feel right. Driving games are about the feel of the car. At 30fps that doesn't come through well.

Some of the comments (*cough* excuses) are hysterical. If DC was out at launch and FM5 was delayed this long and running at 30 fps people would be all over it.

Forza was one of the big reasons I bought an X1 at launch. It runs great, looks great, and the driving physics are a big jump over FM4.

Yes, DC at 30fps is a disappointment.

But the issue with this thread is, its turning into a console war. There was a thread & people saying Console war are stupid and all, but here we are, doing exactly that.

Any unbiased person will tell you that Forza is 1080/60 because its their target & they optimize the hardware for it, giving priority to FPS. DC is 1080/30 because the developers opt for better visual at expense of FPS.

The only debate worthy is if the decision (to make 30fps) is the right one.

But no, people remember Sony fanboys making fun of X1, making fun of Forza Visuals. So they wanted to use the DC 1080/30 setting as a fuel to hit back at Sony Fanboys. Some of the comments just shows this.
So its basically console war.

Cause if you are not, you will not spend time on the fanboy debate, but instead see each game for what they are.
An unbiased comment: Drive club at 30fps, that was a disappointment, I rather they tone down the visual or Res to make 60fps. For me smooth frame rate is important for a racer. Forza developers did it right.
A fanboy version: DC 30fps, what a joke, & Sony fanboys were laughing at Forza, Haha, looks like PS4 is not better in hardware..etc. Suddenly 30fps is ok, only because its a Sony exclusive LOL.

But wait spidey, its not fair, I am just hitting out at Sony fanboys, they started it first! If they have not made fun of X1 & Forza, I would not have made such remarks.
Well, that's how console war started right? One group making an attack. Another group making counter attack, & it goes on.

But then, you mean I should keep quiet, its not fair to X1, not fair to Forza. We need to silence the Fanboys.
Well, firstly you can't silence them, as fanboys will be fanboys. If they cannot win, they shift topic. 2ndly, does silence fanboys make you feel good, doe it affect your enjoyment of the game of choice?
Forza is the highest rated Console racer ever, it has one of the best active community & on top of being and all round very fun game. Why upset by comments from some loud fanboys. Why get into the debate, that get peopel to label 'Console war'.
Its like trying to argue with people that Megan Fox is not ugly to a loud vocal group that insist she is ugly, when its really not necessary.

3rdly, when you do want to make a remark, there is a good way to do it, & then there is the fanboy way. The latter will give fuel to console war.

If you wanted to be cheeky, you can go on the line of," while you guys are arguing, I was busy enjoying myself making a new paintjob, & you may wanted to see it. Here the link, oh, & when DC hit next month I will buy it and enjoy it as well. But you guys can carry on fight the good fight.

 

[Kerosene31]

But the issue with this thread is, its turning into a console war. There was a thread & people saying Console war are stupid and all, but here we are, doing exactly that.

Things like this should end the console wars, not feed the flames (of course it won't). Both systems are underpowered. Everyone here discussed that all year before either console launched. The fact that any game runs at less than 60fps on either console is a disappointment. There is no winner in the console war because both systems are disappointing on that front.

Both Sony and MS should have beefed up their systems to make 1080p/60fps standard. It couldn't take that much more to do it. We shouldn't even be talking about resolution and/or framerate.

 

[starseeker]

Things like this should end the console wars, not feed the flames (of course it won't). Both systems are underpowered. Everyone here discussed that all year before either console launched. The fact that any game runs at less than 60fps on either console is a disappointment. There is no winner in the console war because both systems are disappointing on that front.

Both Sony and MS should have beefed up their systems to make 1080p/60fps standard. It couldn't take that much more to do it. We shouldn't even be talking about resolution and/or framerate.

Well, both system are a bit disappointing. I guess you are right. I will buy consoles for the exclusive really. I am thinking of getting gears & Halo for X1 next year. I have not found a good reason for PS4 yet (but it has nothing to do with hardware etc). I mean, I am a proud X360 & OG owner. I 'grew up' on halo, Forza & Gears, so they have a place in my heart. I heard good things about some naughtly dog games, if I do get a PS4, I will get them.

For other games available on PC, I will probably play on PC. Its better for my eyes when I can run games at 60fps.

 

[Frozpot]

The argument that Forza runs at 60fps & Drive club at 30fps, means PS4 is not as powerful is a very poor argument. Its like saying I made a chair in 30hours, while another guy make different chair using 60 hours, I am better. In reality we have to look at both chair. Maybe his chair have much more details than the one I made, hence took longer.

Anyway, that not what I wanted to say.

What I wanted to say is, its poor choice to forgo FPS in a racing game for improved visuals. FPS should be the top piority. I rather they tone down the visuals, & made it 60fps.

IS anyone saying PS4 isn't as powerful? No. In fact, most of these posts are in response to the months and months of "gamers" s***ting on the X1 and up-playing the importance of 60/1080. Now, Sony Fanboys use the same arguments Xbox fans used. Not long ago all we heard was a game wasn't legitimate unless it was 1080/60. The comparisons between Multi-plats isn't even relevant. The "inferior" version was crap, remember? People on the X1 "side" maintained 30fps was still perfectly playable, but until Infamous and now Drive Club, it was practically a crime against Gamedom. I don't see anyone even saying the GAME is bad for it (except PC guys).

You are right about the console wars thing though!

I personally think Drive Club looks great- but as we( X1 guys) said, it's a trade-off. Double-Standards, people.

 

[Frozpot]

Because it's not demanding, 1080p in the gaming industry is old news now. 1080p 60fps should be a standard for consoles as 1080p was a standard for PC in the mid to late 2000's. There should have been zero reason why consoles couldn't target 1080p NATIVE and 60FPs on a large majority of games. This again shows these consoles are behind the times and outdated at launch.

Atleast when X360 launched it brought gaming into the widescreen HD era, and when brought multicore CPU's to the masses, at that time CPU's were JUST getting into dual core CPU's, and the X360 came along with a 3 core 6 thread processor which was unheard of in the mass market at the time, as was unified shaders on the GPU. Most games on PC were not being played at widescreen resolutions, most played at 1024x768, 1280x1024x 1680x1050, etc. These new consoles have literally brought nothing new to the industry.

This is a bit ignorant. 1080p is as demanding as the elements put into it. Again missing the point. The more assets- ai/effects/textures/world-size/aphas/shaders/particles/etc you use, the harder it is to maintain resolution/framerate. There is no magic "1080p" button. I'd kill to see what a high-end PC could do if optimized at 30fps. Of course, those don't exist. Maybe DX12 will make it more of a possibility.

If you have a top-of-the-Line PC then yes, you can run all these at 1080p( well, those that aren't exclusive, anyway). On PC you can do that because you can tone down Anti-aliasing, tesselation, distant detail, textures, etc. YOU may do that to get to 1080p, but there is much more to visuals than resolution. Let's face it- resolution IS about visuals.

Framerate is a different beast. Some games benefit more than others from higher framerates. The faster the gameplay, the more Frames become important. Racing is one because of how fast you are going. When stuff is flying at your face, you need to be able to react quickly. Still, I've played many FPS/Racing games @ 30fps and had tons of fun. Hell, some of my favorite games were 30fps (Halo, PGR). It's hardly unplayable, but 60 is pretty important for Sims because of the high rate of calculation in the physics every second( Forza is like 360 times per second, i think ).

It all depends on the game, and 30 can be just fine. Of course, if it IS 30, I'd expect some RYSE level graphics, lol.

 

[Mcmasters]

I saw this thread and just started bustin up in dis muffugah! Gat dayum! Dis....dis gone be a good one right derrr!

Ill start from the beginning since I dont have to be at the office for few hours today....

 

[Hammerclaw]

I saw this thread and just started bustin up in dis muffugah! Gat dayum! Dis....dis gone be a good one right derrr!

Ill start from the beginning since I dont have to be at the office for few hours today....

Just don't say anything you wouldn't want thrown back in your face when one of our games is in the crosshairs for the same reason.

 

[Mcmasters]

Just don't say anything you wouldn't want thrown back in your face when one of our games is in the crosshairs for the same reason.

I'ont give a f***!! Lmao!

No really. Its not a big deal, like many here have said. But it is funny how the goal posts move. Im sure DC will be an outstanding game either way though. It sure is a pretty muffugah, thats for sure!

 

[Frozpot]

I'ont give a f***!! Lmao!

No really. Its not a big deal, like many here have said. But it is funny how the goal posts move. Im sure DC will be an outstanding game either way though. It sure is a pretty muffugah, thats for sure!

Geez man, Can't you go back to your "Mate" personality? This weird ebonics thing you've been on is annoying. I actually have you on Ignore because of it. It just seems so fake.

Btw. I only saw this because I clicked on "show Ignored Content" in a moment of weakness.

 

[Mcmasters]

But you are taking it to heart and I see that as a form of biased, because you don't allow the same idea in X1 threads. That is what I see, and it just isn't fair between platforms X1/ps4 or posts. If your going to allow that here, you should perhaps bee a little more lean on the same idea in the X1 section as well. lead by example

Not for nothing but this is the mult platform thread, specifically. Not the PS4 thread. He's still in the zone for bringing this here...

 

[Mcmasters]

Geez man, Can't you go back to your "Mate" personality? This weird ebonics thing you've been on is annoying. I actually have you on Ignore because of it. It just seems so fake.

Btw. I only saw this because I clicked on "show Ignored Content" in a moment of weakness.

Dude, I dont care if you have me on ignore. More power to you, mate! Get lost! This isnt ignoring by the way... The whole point of ignoring is to actually not respond to certain posts........in dis muffugah! Do what you do. And I'll do what I do. Lates....

 

[Kerosene31]

I love how suddenly these discussions are "pointless". They weren't pointless when it is a 30+ page thread on games that didn't run as well on X1.

 

[pravus]

It's not the end of the world.

I do prefer my fps, fighting, shmups and racing games at 60fps, but I think you guys will survive.

No worries though, Project Cars is coming out near this game and is 60fps and looks nearly as good and actually supports Sonys VR, which I don't think Driveclub does.

Edited.

 

[Mcmasters]

We know its not "pointless" however. And this thread is simply an exercise in how to move the goal posts, accurately. I've read a few posts in this thread and I can reason with just about all of them. I see where members like Jinca, would say that 30FPS is fine as long as there is a great sense of speed. He's right. I've played plenty of games at 30 and was more than content during my play through.

But I can also see why X1 owners say that the goal posts have been moved because a delayed, first party game with a year more of development time still only hits 30FPS on a console thats supposed to be the powerhouse of this generation, yet can't double the frame rates over another well established franchise, that released one year before.

It's always been about the experiences-not about the pixels, and not about the Frame rates. The sooner many of us realize that neither one of these consoles will hit 1080p @ 60FPS all the time, and start judging the games on their full merits (not nitpicking menial differences), fun factors and longevity, the better this generation will be. I've always felt that since the next generation is finally here, alot of gamers are missing out on next gen experiences because they are either living in last gen, or have ridiculous standards that have to be met in order to be considered a next gen experience.

In short: next gen may be here now, but the gamers havent caught up to it yet. JMHO.

 

[Hazard71]

I love how suddenly these discussions are "pointless". They weren't pointless when it is a 30+ page thread on games that didn't run as well on X1.

They are ignorant now just like they where then. Let's keep the ignorance going though it is fun to read.

 

[Hazard71]

We know its not "pointless" however. And this thread is simply an exercise in how to move the goal posts, accurately. I've read a few posts in this thread and I can reason with just about all of them. I see where members like Jinca, would say that 30FPS is fine as long as there is a great sense of speed. He's right. I've played plenty of games at 30 and was more than content during my play through.

But I can also see why X1 owners say that the goal posts have been moved because a delayed, first party game with a year more of development time still only hits 30FPS on a console thats supposed to be the powerhouse of this generation, yet can't double the frame rates over another well established franchise, that released one year before.

It's always been about the experiences-not about the pixels, and not about the Frame rates. The sooner many of us realize that neither one of these consoles will hit 1080p @ 60FPS all the time, and start judging the games on their full merits (not nitpicking menial differences), fun factors and longevity, the better this generation will be. I've always felt that since the next generation is finally here, alot of gamers are missing out on next gen experiences because they are either living in last gen, or have ridiculous standards that have to be met in order to be considered a next gen experience.

In short: next gen may be here now, but the gamers havent caught up to it yet. JMHO.

I feel weird saying this but I actually agree with you for once.

 

[The Living Tribunal]

We know its not "pointless" however. And this thread is simply an exercise in how to move the goal posts, accurately. I've read a few posts in this thread and I can reason with just about all of them. I see where members like Jinca, would say that 30FPS is fine as long as there is a great sense of speed. He's right. I've played plenty of games at 30 and was more than content during my play through.

But I can also see why X1 owners say that the goal posts have been moved because a delayed, first party game with a year more of development time still only hits 30FPS on a console thats supposed to be the powerhouse of this generation, yet can't double the frame rates over another well established franchise, that released one year before.

It's always been about the experiences-not about the pixels, and not about the Frame rates. The sooner many of us realize that neither one of these consoles will hit 1080p @ 60FPS all the time, and start judging the games on their full merits (not nitpicking menial differences), fun factors and longevity, the better this generation will be. I've always felt that since the next generation is finally here, alot of gamers are missing out on next gen experiences because they are either living in last gen, or have ridiculous standards that have to be met in order to be considered a next gen experience.

In short: next gen may be here now, but the gamers havent caught up to it yet. JMHO.

What have you done with Mcmasters!??
Where is he?


Who are you!??

 

[Frozpot]

We know its not "pointless" however. And this thread is simply an exercise in how to move the goal posts, accurately. I've read a few posts in this thread and I can reason with just about all of them. I see where members like Jinca, would say that 30FPS is fine as long as there is a great sense of speed. He's right. I've played plenty of games at 30 and was more than content during my play through.

But I can also see why X1 owners say that the goal posts have been moved because a delayed, first party game with a year more of development time still only hits 30FPS on a console thats supposed to be the powerhouse of this generation, yet can't double the frame rates over another well established franchise, that released one year before.

It's always been about the experiences-not about the pixels, and not about the Frame rates. The sooner many of us realize that neither one of these consoles will hit 1080p @ 60FPS all the time, and start judging the games on their full merits (not nitpicking menial differences), fun factors and longevity, the better this generation will be. I've always felt that since the next generation is finally here, alot of gamers are missing out on next gen experiences because they are either living in last gen, or have ridiculous standards that have to be met in order to be considered a next gen experience.

In short: next gen may be here now, but the gamers havent caught up to it yet. JMHO.

Keep posting like this, and I may just Un-ignore you

I know, I know. Couldn't help it once I clicked "show" a few posts ago, lol...

 

[Kvally]

60 > 30.

Am I doing it right?

 

[JinCA]

So let me get this straight....Forza is 60fps/1080p. 'Oh the graphics aren't that great anyway. Barely a step up from Forza 4! LOL look at the cardboard cut outs! The visuals had to be lowered due to xb1 GPU! ' Now Drive Club is 30fps (which is SAD for ANY racing game) and all of a sudden it is because 'Oh the devs were targeting that framerate' LOL. Moving goalposts indeed.

How is it moving the goalposts when they've said that all along? they aren't even the same type of racing game, one is a sim and the other more of an arcade racer. DC is going more for striking visuals and that comes at a higher cost, F5 was downgraded from when they first showed it, it's not as good looking as some here want us to believe, it looks fine but it's not amazing. IF DC comes out and the graphics are average and it's at 30 fps I don't think anyone would defend it, if it looks amazing at 30 fps than there is nothing to complain about.