Xbox One Developer Explains 1080P Difficulties

[Hissatsu]

Eh? Even if you were under the impression that the N64 released two years later, how does two years equate to "YEARS?" The whole enthuses with the capitalization is a complete (and presumably very intentional) over-exaggeration. You only make yourself look worse with such deliberate misleading in your phrasing

But just a little over a year difference isn't that long and definitely not enough to offset how weak both the PS1 and PS2 were compared to the competition. To add to that, the PS1 was a brand new console with no previous brand recognition whilst the N64 was the third console under Nintendo's belt, and the PS2 obliterated everything in sight. How does any of that make sense if graphics hold any real weight?

I disagree, a year + is freaking huge in hardware. Are you being serious? who wouldn't expect new and better tech in a console that comes out a year+ later? You sit here making these arguments about graphics yet all of the systems you are talking about where the strongest when they released.

Tired of going in circles with you. bb

 

[Dno69]

• We see where that got nintendo this time around huh?.... oh wait.
  
  Yea cause targeting casuals was such a great idea long term!

  
  It was for Nintendo. At least for a generation.
  
  But I dont think Microsoft or Sony are catering to casuals the way Nintendo did. Microsoft moreso than Sony though.
  
  But my point is that it's still about the games not power.
  

 

[Hissatsu]

Then why even release new hardware, just keep the 360 going forever I'm sure everyone will be happy since it's all about the games and power doesn't matter.

 

[Kassen]

I disagree, a year + is freaking huge in hardware. Are you being serious? who wouldn't expect new and better tech in a console that comes out a year+ later? You sit here making these arguments about graphics yet all of the systems you are talking about where the strongest when they released.

Tired of going in circles with you. bb

To be honest, all I have really seen you say is "look at all these other factors that have had a greater impact on the success of the PS1 and PS2 than the graphics of the consoles." A year isn't that long. The PS3 is proof of that having outsold the 360 despite being a year younger. I really just wanted to understand the answers behind your reasoning, but I guess it really is best the discussion end here. This whole thread seems to be nothing but circles, and you seemed pretty heated at times.

 

[Hissatsu]

To be honest, all I have really seen you say is "look at all these other factors that have had a greater impact on the success of the PS1 and PS2 than the graphics of the consoles." A year isn't that long. The PS3 is proof of that having outsold the 360 despite being a year younger. I really just wanted to understand the answers behind your reasoning, but I guess it really is best the discussion end here. This whole thread seems to be nothing but circles, and you seemed pretty heated at times.

lol last thing i'm going to say to you.

ps3 is considered more powerful.

 

[Kassen]

lol last thing i'm going to say to you.

ps3 is considered more powerful.

Not at launch was the PS3 was more powerful, and the games definitely showed that. Wouldn't that have had its effect? You could say the PS3 also did well despite the "really late" release and mildly weaker hardware because of brand recognition, but would that not also just show that releasing early and/or brand recognition carry much more weight than graphics power? It definitely brings it into question without a doubt.

But why are you so against our discussion. Do you really enjoy the mindless fanboy banter of this forum over our civil and logical discussion?

 

[Dno69]

Then why even release new hardware, just keep the 360 going forever I'm sure everyone will be happy since it's all about the games and power doesn't matter.

Well its an upgrade. Just not to the extent that most of us wanted.

I'll put it this way. Not that resolution and framerate doesn't matter, because it does., but when PS4 versions of third party games start having more polygons or effects on the environments or characters, then I'll throw a fit over how underpowered the Xbox One is. Until then, their comparable power wise as the developers have been saying all along.

 

[IdleHands]

lol I actually like Ketto most of the time ;(

Ketto's cool as hell. He's a fellow Buffy fan, in fact back when Torchlight 2 first came out I unloaded a bunch of gear on him and my stash toon at the time was named Buffy and the toon he needed gear for was also named Buffy.

 

[sharkboy1200]

Then why even release new hardware, just keep the 360 going forever I'm sure everyone will be happy since it's all about the games and power doesn't matter.

Now, when people say games matter the most, they aren't saying graphics don't matter at all. Visuals are a big deal, but for all the controversy surrounding it, argument could be made that it's simply overrated in a era where games are in a uncanny valley of realism. Everything looks marvelous and it's not like the days when we ditched the harsh polygonal looking visuals for stuff that looks so much more natural and life like. Everything looks amazing and the argument over 1080p and 60 FPS just comes across as nitpicking to those who don't see that as the no. 1 reason to buy a new console.

1) Disc space. This was a common complaint and made developing for the 360 potentially more expensive since so many devs had to resort to multiple discs.

2) The 360 simply doesn't have the built-in recording features and it seems like that's become pretty popular on both the X1 and PS4. People love capturing their gameplay in the easiest fashion. As far as I know, this wasn't capable unless the game had a built-in theater of some kind like Halo or CoD. Not sure if it's possible to add it on the 360 with updates or not, but this has been a pretty welcomed feature.

3) It might not matter to you, but kinect did receive a nice boost in performance. Hardly perfect, but it's reputation is so much better these days than it was in the past. Whether that translates into game sales remains to be seen with stuff like Kinect Sports Rivals and Disney Fantasia, but people enjoyed navigating the OS with kinect, using the associated features, and increased overall accuracy of kinect. Still not perfect, but it's obviously been improved upon.

4) Potentially, cloud stuff. Sony and MS are promising big things from it and if they even get half of it right, then it could prove to be a big deal for gaming's future and how products are bought/sold, perhaps even rented.

5) Let's be honest, when everyone else comes out with new hardware, then it's time to push out something new as well. MS could've waited a year perhaps, but that's a risk in terms of losing market share. Sony's popularity hasn't dwindled down enough where giving them a big head start would be considered wise.

 

[Hissatsu]

Not at launch was the PS3 was more powerful, and the games definitely showed that. Wouldn't that have had its effect? You could say the PS3 also did well despite the "really late" release and mildly weaker hardware because of brand recognition, but would that not also just show that releasing early and/or brand recognition carry much more weight than graphics power? It definitely brings it into question without a doubt.

But why are you so against our discussion. Do you really enjoy the mindless fanboy banter of this forum over our civil and logical discussion?

YES i ENJOY THE FANBOY BANTER! IT'S MORE ENTERTAINING!

I definitely think brand recognition played a role in ps3 doing so well. I just happen to also think power played a role too. How much? I can't say but I do think power is more important than people give it credit for. A lot of people on this forum seem to gloss over it like it never matters and it's annoying.

 

[Hissatsu]

Well its an upgrade. Just not to the extent that most of us wanted.

I'll put it this way. Not that resolution and framerate doesn't matter, because it does., but when PS4 versions of third party games start having more polygons or effects on the environments or characters, then I'll throw a fit over how underpowered the Xbox One is. Until then, their comparable power wise as the developers have been saying all along.

I can respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it

 

[Mcmasters]

Power is important. I agree with D, here. However, the graphical fidelity on both consoles is staggering! So much so in fact, that it becomes precisely the reason why so many arent worried about resolutions and frame rates, and who can blame them? Effects, polygons, small details that bring each digital world to life is kept in tact by both consoles regardless of resolution or frame rates.

 

[devilsgrin_6]

They built the Xbox One around software, services, & apps for the whole family. Gaming wasn't the main priority, that's why it turned out the way it did. As a gamer I want more state-of-the-art technology for $500. What was the kicker was that Microsoft force fed gamers the Kinect for the extra $100 when most of us didn't want it just so they could accomplish their means of giving the whole family an easy control mechanism to purchase digital content. The PS4 shipped with slightly better hardware for $100 less because of this too. Imagine if Microsoft would have removed the Kinect, shipped for $50 more than PS4, ($450) but put $50 of extra technology in there. That alone would have bought better RAM & enough so that the operating systems didn't need to have three gigs shut off at all times for it & two cores on the processor.

That would have made most of us shut up & the games would have ran better than PS4 games. MS is now $100 more expensive with inferior technology & now the Xbox fanboys can't swallow it. I love Xbox too, but Microsoft made bad decisions for gamers this generation if that's what you care about technology wise. They took the "greedy way out..."

 

[starlight777]

strider runs at 1080p 60fps on the xbox one

 

[Kvally]

Funny thing is kvally is a bigger fanboy than most of the people he comments on.

We got your number bro

 

[Kvally]

PS fan indeed.

I wasn't referring to you BTW, I want to bang you....you being your avatar. I love her.

 

[Kassen]

YES i ENJOY THE FANBOY BANTER! IT'S MORE ENTERTAINING!

I definitely think brand recognition played a role in ps3 doing so well. I just happen to also think power played a role too. How much? I can't say but I do think power is more important than people give it credit for. A lot of people on this forum seem to gloss over it like it never matters and it's annoying.

Given the history of console generations, graphics never had a significant impact on the success of any console. So you were simply wrong for saying graphics has a large impact and very much wrong for saying the Xbox One is floundering largely due to the graphics.

 

[Kerosene31]

Given the history of console generations, graphics never had a significant impact on the success of any console. So you were simply wrong for saying graphics has a large impact and very much wrong for saying the Xbox One is floundering largely due to the graphics.

I agree. While every single discussion is resolution here, look at game sales. COD looks like garbage and sells a ton. I think Titanfall will be fine too, even given its "lower" resolution. Heck, watch what happens when Minecraft hits next gen. We'll all be using our expensive next gen consoles for a game with terrible graphics.

I think the difference in sales comes down to the price, not the power. History has shown that the cost seems to be big, that's why the PS3 had to play catch-up last gen.

I think people also are greatly exaggerating the power difference. The X1 seems to be tougher to develop for, which means it will take a little more time. We've already seen 1080p/60fps games (including the one in this thread!). People making assumptions based on the first few months of games are jumping the gun. Do people not think that games will get better looking over time???

 

[jimmyD]

I can respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it

I'm thinking you're not giving enough credit to the software. History has shown people will go to where the games are and rarely has a console gen been "won" by the most powerful console.

 

[Yoyoniner]

Well its an upgrade. Just not to the extent that most of us wanted.

I'll put it this way. Not that resolution and framerate doesn't matter, because it does., but when PS4 versions of third party games start having more polygons or effects on the environments or characters, then I'll throw a fit over how underpowered the Xbox One is. Until then, their comparable power wise as the developers have been saying all along.

But resolution and frame rate scale linearly with power, running the same code.

Do you ever game on and upgrade your PC? In fact if you were to double your GPU speed, you would either double the resolution OR double the frame rate (not both) of your games.

I really doubt 3rd party developers are going to create all new assets just for PS4 games, though we already have examples of more advanced effects on PS4 (BF4 particle effects, and NFS refined bokeh depth-of-field effect that goes entirely missing on Xbox One).

If games with the same assets are running at double the resolution (720P -> 1080P is slightly more than double the resolution) or double the frame rate (30fps -> 60fps), that should be window enough into respective console power. Nothing scales more linearly, save for perhaps color bit depth. Nothing is stopping a developer from using all that extra power on just effects or all new assets and all new character models instead, it would just mean a lot more work. I agree with you that it would be cool to see.

 

[kb]

I think people also are greatly exaggerating the power difference. The X1 seems to be tougher to develop for, which means it will take a little more time. We've already seen 1080p/60fps games (including the one in this thread!). People making assumptions based on the first few months of games are jumping the gun. Do people not think that games will get better looking over time???

The performance gap is literally ~40% on a number of metrics and ~90% on another. The only area the xb1 outpaces is bandwidth and that's under specific conditions with the esram and ddr3 in parallel the bad news is games don't stress bandwidth anywhere near as much as the other metrics. So it's not only harder to develop for, but the difference should be closer to 900p then 720p unless theres other bottlenecks.

 

[Kerosene31]

The performance gap is literally ~40% on a number of metrics and ~90% on another. The only area the xb1 outpaces is bandwidth and that's under specific conditions with the esram and ddr3 in parallel the bad news is games don't stress bandwidth anywhere near as much as the other metrics. So it's not only harder to develop for, but the difference should be closer to 900p then 720p unless theres other bottlenecks.

Some games have a performance gap that large, not all. The X1 can run games at 1080p. It is not the gimped machine people claim.

 

[CasualGamer]

Just saw on neogaf that Thief is 1080p on ps4 and 900p on the One

 

[BDaddyK]

If you guys are gonna debate metrics this might help:

1in = 2.54 cm
1ft = .304 meters
1 mi = 1.609 km

Just to make sure you get the metrics correct...

 

[devilsgrin_6]

I just don't get why with every game that comes out people continue to fight over this bullsh*t. Is it that hard to accept that the Xbox is slightly underpowered? It's like fighting over, "Why doesn't the Wii U look as good as Xbox One!" Can people not let this sh*t go already? lol. But, but, but, but...it's Xbox...waaaaaah...mom...it's supposed to be the most powerful thing ever. My penis is now smaller because my console is inferior. I'll fight you over it with every single game release even though everybody knows it's specs are lower. My life is over! It just can't be second best, it can't, it caaaaaaan't... *revolver barrel to head*

 

[menace-uk-]

I just don't get why with every game that comes out people continue to fight over this bullsh*t. Is it that hard to accept that the Xbox is slightly underpowered? It's like fighting over, "Why doesn't the Wii U look as good as Xbox One!" Can people not let this sh*t go already? lol. But, but, but, but...it's Xbox...waaaaaah...mom...it's supposed to be the most powerful thing ever. My penis is now smaller because my console is inferior. I'll fight you over it with every single game release even though everybody knows it's specs are lower. My life is over! It just can't be second best, it can't, it caaaaaaan't... *revolver barrel to head*

I see somebody has a talent for the dramatic

 

[CasualGamer]

Lol that is pretty accurate. I couldn't imagine being like that

 

[Hissatsu]

Given the history of console generations, graphics never had a significant impact on the success of any console. So you were simply wrong for saying graphics has a large impact and very much wrong for saying the Xbox One is floundering largely due to the graphics.

I think graphics do have an impact. How significant is up for debate. Saying i'm wrong is a bit much, at the end of the day it's only your opinion. Almost every console that has beaten the competition has been the most powerful at the time of it's release.

strider runs at 1080p 60fps on the xbox one

lol I bet 360 could run it as 1080p 60 fps as well.

I wasn't referring to you BTW, I want to bang you....you being your avatar. I love her.

He knows you weren't talking about him. He was pointing out how stupid you sound for trying to call me out when i just bashed the ps4.

 

[TeKPhaN]

I'm thinking you're not giving enough credit to the software. History has shown people will go to where the games are and rarely has a console gen been "won" by the most powerful console.

Even less likely for the most expensive console to "win" a console war.

just saying

 

[Hissatsu]

I'm thinking you're not giving enough credit to the software. History has shown people will go to where the games are and rarely has a console gen been "won" by the most powerful console.

Nope. Obviously software matters. Graphics matter too though. Ps2 was the most powerful console on the market for more than a year and a half before it got any competition. Why do you think Ps2 came out and creamed dreamcast? part of it was because sony made the ps2 sound like the most powerful piece of hardware ever built. It sure wasn't just the games lol.